How times have changed..

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WirralExile
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How times have changed..

Post by WirralExile »

I'm just watching the England v Samoa match from the 2003 World Cup on ITV4 and am gasping at the ferocity and dangerous high tackles. Jason Robinson was nearly decapitated at one point.
The game was certainly quicker back then but the penalising of high tackles had to happen. I'm surprised there aren't more reports of the long term effects of those tackles.
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h's dad
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by h's dad »

WirralExile wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:44 pm I'm just watching the England v Samoa match from the 2003 World Cup on ITV4 and am gasping at the ferocity and dangerous high tackles. Jason Robinson was nearly decapitated at one point.
The game was certainly quicker back then but the penalising of high tackles had to happen. I'm surprised there aren't more reports of the long term effects of those tackles.
The new shirts boast anti-scrag collars which would seem to be a bit of an own goal (to mix sports metaphors) as a scraggable collar should now be a definite penalty earner.

And talking of 2003 v Samoa, full credit to Samoa for not attempting to get England penalised for the shenanigans initiated by one Steve Walsh.
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kk20gb30
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by kk20gb30 »

Player Welfare obviously important and correct that dangerous play has been outlawed , but without question our game has been 'sanitized' and not always for the better....
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by Tigerbeat »

kk20gb30 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:12 am Player Welfare obviously important and correct that dangerous play has been outlawed , but without question our game has been 'sanitized' and not always for the better....
You say not always for the better......what in your opinion do you think should be put back in the game?
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Pellsey
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by Pellsey »

I, maybe for one, am very happy that I played rugby from 80s until 00s, because I would not enjoy it as much now, despite the lower risk of injury with the modern rules. I did get injured a lot, but I wouldn't have changed this because I loved playing the game then.

Currently IMHO, there are way too many cards being given for badly-timed tackles (rather than malicious tackles) and players using the new rules to remove opponents from the pitch (ducking etc). I also find the modern "whining" at Sir, such as that from Mr Farrell, rather tiresome. "Deliberate" knock-ons are also a pet peeve of mine in modern rugby, especially when you are simply intending to intercept the ball.

Modern rugby to me is a little bit like watching boxing without punches to the head for fear of concussion. For me it just seems a little wet. I definitely do not condone illegal malicious play, but there must be a difference between being malicious and an accident. Cutting down on accidents is obviously a good thing, but IMHO not at the expense of the game itself. I expect many people to disagree, and give multiple examples of horrendous injuries (which are obviously "horrendous"!), but, as mentioned, I am extremely glad I played before the preventative measures came about. I will not stop driving a car or crossing the road for fear of having an accident. If people do not want to play the game for fear of injury, nobody is forcing them. It is individual choice to play rugby union or choose another sport or profession.

Rugby is in my heart and however much I try to stop watching it due to frustration of the new rules, or at least the modern interpretation of them, I have to get my rugby fix, or at least Tigers fix, however watered down it seems to me.
JP14
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by JP14 »

People like Messrs Biggar and Farrell need to be policed more on their attitude.
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happywomble
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by happywomble »

We need to respect the referee much more, its getting like football now. Also faking injuries. Those who shout at the ref/fake injuries should be yellow-carded.
jgriffin
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by jgriffin »

I've watched a few games from earlier times and what strikes me now is the sheer speed and semi-chaos. There was little time to organise defence, and many tackles that might be penalised now were attempts far from the 'hits' of today's hyper defences. There were constant attacks and counterattack with little 'taking into contact' as turnovers were frequent if players did. Scrums were formed and over in 30 seconds. By 60 mins most players were blowing, and gaps were even wider. The players were lean and lighter by far. Exactly what World Rugby are thinking of going back towards....
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chewbacca
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by chewbacca »

Both the SA and Samoa games were played at breakneck speed. High tackles rarely penalised which cant be a good thing, but the overall pace the games were played at and the lack of scrum resets made it so exciting the ball must have been in play 50% more than it is currently. Bring it back.
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Longshanks
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by Longshanks »

Tigerbeat wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:15 am
kk20gb30 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:12 am Player Welfare obviously important and correct that dangerous play has been outlawed , but without question our game has been 'sanitized' and not always for the better....
You say not always for the better......what in your opinion do you think should be put back in the game?
I am not convinced that too many fundamental changes are needed - just some changes of emphasis to restore competition in certain areas. For example, set piece has become too sterile with put in to the scrum or lineout virtually uncontested much of the time for fear of being penalised. By all means protect the jumper from serious injury but a clash of the arms while genuinely competing for the ball should be fair enough. Similarly, continue to police the scrum from collapsing dangerously but allow the front rows to compete, otherwise it continues to resemble League rather than Union, just with multiple resets to infuriate everyone even more. Some of the officiating with regards tackling has gone too far, often at odds safety-wise with what is considered a fair clear-out at the ruck. I would look again at the rules regarding so-called seatbelt tackles where it seems that bad intent or poor execution is being targeted rather than a dangerous outcome. Ironically the rules as they stand seem to cause as many problems as they solve; more upright "collisions", often resembling bear-hugs in midfield, lead to more head clashes and concussion.
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by sam16111986 »

happywomble wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:50 am We need to respect the referee much more, its getting like football now. Also faking injuries. Those who shout at the ref/fake injuries should be yellow-carded.
Faking injury should be straight red.

There's a big problem in rugby with players shouting at officials it needs to be stamped out. Zero tolerance. If players get carded as a result then it'll stamp out the talking back even quicker.
Mark62
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by Mark62 »

What do forum users think of the trial in New Zealand with 20 minutes for a red card. I’m in favour for certain transgressions, such as 2 technical offences, or a miss timed tackle , or miss timed challenge for a ball in the air.
Serious foul play should still mean off for the rest of the match.
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by Longshanks »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:45 am What do forum users think of the trial in New Zealand with 20 minutes for a red card. I’m in favour for certain transgressions, such as 2 technical offences, or a miss timed tackle , or miss timed challenge for a ball in the air.
Serious foul play should still mean off for the rest of the match.
There is some merit in another level of sanction but I wouldn't call it a Red Card - those should be clear-cut decisions, off for the rest of the match, automatic disciplinary panel, etc,

Whatever measures are trialled, priority needs to be given to speed of decision making. More downtime while officials debate and replay alleged offences ad nauseam has to be avoided.
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by ay2oh »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:45 am What do forum users think of the trial in New Zealand with 20 minutes for a red card. I’m in favour for certain transgressions, such as 2 technical offences, or a miss timed tackle , or miss timed challenge for a ball in the air.
Serious foul play should still mean off for the rest of the match.
Good idea :smt003
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Re: How times have changed..

Post by ay2oh »

ay2oh wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:56 am
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:45 am What do forum users think of the trial in New Zealand with 20 minutes for a red card. I’m in favour for certain transgressions, such as 2 technical offences, or a miss timed tackle , or miss timed challenge for a ball in the air.
Serious foul play should still mean off for the rest of the match.
Good idea :smt003 just need a way of keeping the spectators informed whether a full red card or not
A2O
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