Puzzled - Saracens!

[mol2]

Or has another wheeze been found such as front loading the contracts, big bonus payments for this season and reduced income for next season?

No proof but it would be one way of a side circumventing the salary cap, knowing they are being punished for this season already they could pay off part of a player’s salary up front and replace the contract with a lower ongoing salary. A sort of “golden handcuffs” arrangement. Of course the team, sugar daddy or sponsor would need the cash to do so.

Why would a host of top international players want to spend a season in the second division, no European competition and potentially miss out on the Lions or England?

How would this fit with the league rules? Probably the rules don’t factor in a side deciding to be hung for a sheep when they have already been given the ultimate sanction for stealing a lamb.

Why did Sarries accept the punishment so readily thus avoiding closer scrutiny? We can but wonder.

[BFG]

Or has another wheeze been found such as front loading the contracts, big bonus payments for this season and reduced income for next season?

No proof but it would be one way of a side circumventing the salary cap, knowing they are being punished for this season already they could pay off part of a player’s salary up front and replace the contract with a lower ongoing salary. A sort of “golden handcuffs” arrangement. Of course the team, sugar daddy or sponsor would need the cash to do so.

Why would a host of top international players want to spend a season in the second division, no European competition and potentially miss out on the Lions or England?

How would this fit with the league rules? Probably the rules don’t factor in a side deciding to be hung for a sheep when they have already been given the ultimate sanction for stealing a lamb.

Why did Sarries accept the punishment so readily thus avoiding closer scrutiny? We can but wonder.

Being relegated as they were was arguably good preparation for the arrival of Covid-19.
Good for international players who may end up being overplayed as the seasons 19/20, 20/21 and 21/22 become more condensed and a good thing for a club that had already had to start thinking about cutting its cloth accordingly.

[Snowdrop]

The question I have about the Cheaters is: Why, when they have been relegated, they continue to play and by results, affect other teams ability to qualify for the differing tiers of European rugby? Not sure how any team can be found guilty of cheating (fraud really), yet are allowed to continue playing, and taking points of teams.

[Mark62]

The question I have about the Cheaters is: Why, when they have been relegated, they continue to play and by results, affect other teams ability to qualify for the differing tiers of European rugby? Not sure how any team can be found guilty of cheating (fraud really), yet are allowed to continue playing, and taking points of teams.

I do agree that there is no point in them fulfilling their fixtures for the remainder of the season. In what is going to be a very congested few weeks, it would be beneficial for some teams to have a few days off, though I appreciate this would only benefit those clubs with a fixture against Saracens

[Tiglon]

Or has another wheeze been found such as front loading the contracts, big bonus payments for this season and reduced income for next season?

No proof but it would be one way of a side circumventing the salary cap, knowing they are being punished for this season already they could pay off part of a player’s salary up front and replace the contract with a lower ongoing salary. A sort of “golden handcuffs” arrangement. Of course the team, sugar daddy or sponsor would need the cash to do so.

Why would a host of top international players want to spend a season in the second division, no European competition and potentially miss out on the Lions or England?

How would this fit with the league rules? Probably the rules don’t factor in a side deciding to be hung for a sheep when they have already been given the ultimate sanction for stealing a lamb.

Why did Sarries accept the punishment so readily thus avoiding closer scrutiny? We can but wonder.

Probably because Jones and Gatland both see a year without the high intensity and relentlessness of the Premiership as a very good thing, so none of them will miss out on England or the Lions. They've all won the Premiership and Champions Cup with Saracens, so one year of taking it a bit easy and potentially extending their careers so they can have another good crack at the World Cup in 3 years time is perhaps even a positive. If I'm Farrell or George, yes I still want to win more at club level, but the one thing I'm desperate for is a WC winners medal. Protecting my body so that I've got a better chance of being in excellent shape in my 30's to help achieve that goal isn't much of a downside.

I'm not saying that Sarries definitely aren't still cheating or won't cheat again, but I don't see the point in constantly speculating. I'm sure the salary cap people will be looking very closely at Saracens, and it's going to be pretty boring to have a 10 page thread about how Saracens must still be cheating every time some of their players sign new contracts.

[h's dad]

Or has another wheeze been found such as front loading the contracts, big bonus payments for this season and reduced income for next season?

No proof but it would be one way of a side circumventing the salary cap, knowing they are being punished for this season already they could pay off part of a player’s salary up front and replace the contract with a lower ongoing salary. A sort of “golden handcuffs” arrangement. Of course the team, sugar daddy or sponsor would need the cash to do so.

Why would a host of top international players want to spend a season in the second division, no European competition and potentially miss out on the Lions or England?

How would this fit with the league rules? Probably the rules don’t factor in a side deciding to be hung for a sheep when they have already been given the ultimate sanction for stealing a lamb.

Why did Sarries accept the punishment so readily thus avoiding closer scrutiny? We can but wonder.

Further and additional breaches this season would give scope for additional fines and penalties resulting in the denial of promotion if achieved next season and with the PRL having finally found their teeth it would be a distinct possibility. I hope we can have confidence on Saracens being on double secret probation.

[GETHIN EXILE]

If I were a season ticket holder ( i know there aren't many of them lol) at Saracens I would want the best players on the pitch as often as possible or a dramatic reduction in ticket price.

[ourla]

I think Saracens will have a couple of rebuilding of reputation and trophyless years. And then maybe they can get back in the game. The problem is sometimes once you lose that impetus - for want of a better word - it's difficult to regain it. Going to be tough mentally as much as anything to take the whole thing on the chin and come back.

[mol2]

Or has another wheeze been found such as front loading the contracts, big bonus payments for this season and reduced income for next season?

No proof but it would be one way of a side circumventing the salary cap, knowing they are being punished for this season already they could pay off part of a player’s salary up front and replace the contract with a lower ongoing salary. A sort of “golden handcuffs” arrangement. Of course the team, sugar daddy or sponsor would need the cash to do so.


How would this fit with the league rules? Probably the rules don’t factor in a side deciding to be hung for a sheep when they have already been given the ultimate sanction for stealing a lamb.

Why did Sarries accept the punishment so readily thus avoiding closer scrutiny? We can but wonder.

Further and additional breaches this season would give scope for additional fines and penalties resulting in the denial of promotion if achieved next season and with the PRL having finally found their teeth it would be a distinct possibility. I hope we can have confidence on Saracens being on double secret probation.

I'm not sure I concur. As I recall they simply admitted guilt rather than undergo scrutiny and disclose by how much. Did that mean Sarries may have decided that they were required to terminate contracts and initiate new ones that are compliant? If that meant they had to pay off the players' contracts to accept their premature termination and accept a lower salary on an ongoing basis the net cost may have been the same but the impact of those payments will be less for next year and the year after than it was for this year. So a player earing £300k a year at present on a 3 year deal may have the contract ended after year one, accept a pay off of £200k to terminate the contract and accept a new 2 year deal for £200k a year. So he earned £500k this year and £200k for each of the two following years and the net cost is still £900k but the impact on the cap is less for years 2 and 3 and we know that year 1 is already cap busting.

No proof but just an illustration of how the figures can be massaged for existing players.

[BFG]

Looking at Sam's in and out list on page 1 the balance of that list alone could possibly reduce costs by £2-3million.
Goode, Tompkins, Isiekwe, Earl, Malins and Singleton are also out on loan.
Sarries could've potentially reduced their wage bill by around £4-5million.
With the situation created by Covid-19 and the threat of punishment now very clear to all I think it's safe to assume that everyone will be playing by the rules in the future.

[h's dad]

Or has another wheeze been found such as front loading the contracts, big bonus payments for this season and reduced income for next season?

No proof but it would be one way of a side circumventing the salary cap, knowing they are being punished for this season already they could pay off part of a player’s salary up front and replace the contract with a lower ongoing salary. A sort of “golden handcuffs” arrangement. Of course the team, sugar daddy or sponsor would need the cash to do so.


How would this fit with the league rules? Probably the rules don’t factor in a side deciding to be hung for a sheep when they have already been given the ultimate sanction for stealing a lamb.

Why did Sarries accept the punishment so readily thus avoiding closer scrutiny? We can but wonder.

Further and additional breaches this season would give scope for additional fines and penalties resulting in the denial of promotion if achieved next season and with the PRL having finally found their teeth it would be a distinct possibility. I hope we can have confidence on Saracens being on double secret probation.

I'm not sure I concur. As I recall they simply admitted guilt rather than undergo scrutiny and disclose by how much. Did that mean Sarries may have decided that they were required to terminate contracts and initiate new ones that are compliant? If that meant they had to pay off the players' contracts to accept their premature termination and accept a lower salary on an ongoing basis the net cost may have been the same but the impact of those payments will be less for next year and the year after than it was for this year. So a player earing £300k a year at present on a 3 year deal may have the contract ended after year one, accept a pay off of £200k to terminate the contract and accept a new 2 year deal for £200k a year. So he earned £500k this year and £200k for each of the two following years and the net cost is still £900k but the impact on the cap is less for years 2 and 3 and we know that year 1 is already cap busting.

No proof but just an illustration of how the figures can be massaged for existing players.

You really do need to be aware that Andrew Rogers and Saffery Champness are not a bunch of particularly backward eight year olds and that the salary cap regulations were not drawn up on a Sunday morning by the work experience lad with a hangover.

[nasher]

The avoidance of scrutiny leaves many unanswered questions, until the financial records are properly scrutinised Sarries still smell and bring the game into disrepute .

[TigerFeetSteve]

The avoidance of scrutiny leaves many unanswered questions, until the financial records are properly scrutinised Sarries still smell and bring the game into disrepute .

Yes but Sarries were offered a choice, relegation ir have their books checked by a forensic accountant. They chose relegation, no matter the truth that choice will lead to distrust in the club...

[h's dad]

The avoidance of scrutiny leaves many unanswered questions, until the financial records are properly scrutinised Sarries still smell and bring the game into disrepute .

Yes but Sarries were offered a choice, relegation ir have their books checked by a forensic accountant. They chose relegation, no matter the truth that choice will lead to distrust in the club...

Quite a lot has already been uncovered and punishment has been meted out, even if some feel it is not sufficient. I'm sure there is more but perhaps we are now at the point of diminishing returns?

[nasher]

A thought. If they were guilty why were they offered a choice. Surely in the pursuit of closure a full examination and disclosure would accelerate closure
and clear the smell, until the full extent is known the doubts will continue and how do we know that all the schemes used are known and can be stopped in future.