Puzzled - Saracens!

[Mark62]

A thought. If they were guilty why were they offered a choice. Surely in the pursuit of closure a full examination and disclosure would accelerate closure
and clear the smell, until the full extent is known the doubts will continue and how do we know that all the schemes used are known and can be stopped in future.

Are there any further doubts other than on this forum.

[wellstiger]

Right then. Exiles are exiled to Championship. Books were not forensically scrutinised. Fact.
They have now lost players and renegotiated contracts. Fact
They have lost main sponsor Fact.
Salary caps are not relevant for ERC. Fact

Subjective.....
Therefore to assist ANY club promoted into the Premiership, and ensuring their survival, would it not be prudent to examine the promoted club/s finances over the previous 3 seasons? Offer constructive advise where possible then if there is then anything adverse, then promotion would be reversed.
This would then counter any speculation, and although with the squad Sorries have, automatic promotion is not assured.There are some good teams who will not give up the fight easily.The international distractions does not make it a given.

[Mark62]

Right then. Exiles are exiled to Championship. Books were not forensically scrutinised. Fact.
They have now lost players and renegotiated contracts. Fact
They have lost main sponsor Fact.
Salary caps are not relevant for ERC. Fact

Subjective.....
Therefore to assist ANY club promoted into the Premiership, and ensuring their survival, would it not be prudent to examine the promoted club/s finances over the previous 3 seasons? Offer constructive advise where possible then if there is then anything adverse, then promotion would be reversed.
This would then counter any speculation, and although with the squad Sorries have, automatic promotion is not assured.There are some good teams who will not give up the fight easily.The international distractions does not make it a given.

Think you might mean Saracens rather than Exiles. Just a guess

[WhitecapTiger]

Salary caps are not relevant for ERC. Fact

But as you qualify for the EPRC tournaments through a league where a salary cap is relevant, surely if you ignore the rules/regulations for that then Euro qualification should also be 'tainted'.

But this has been done to death.

[Tiglon]

Salary caps are not relevant for ERC. Fact

But as you qualify for the EPRC tournaments through a league where a salary cap is relevant, surely if you ignore the rules/regulations for that then Euro qualification should also be 'tainted'.

But this has been done to death.

Agree with your last sentence, and that Euro qualifications are morally tainted. However, their finishing positions in the Premiership still stand, so they still qualified for the competition.

[h's dad]

Right then. Exiles are exiled to Championship. Books were not forensically scrutinised. Fact.
They have now lost players and renegotiated contracts. Fact
They have lost main sponsor Fact.
Salary caps are not relevant for ERC. Fact

Subjective.....
Therefore to assist ANY club promoted into the Premiership, and ensuring their survival, would it not be prudent to examine the promoted club/s finances over the previous 3 seasons? Offer constructive advise where possible then if there is then anything adverse, then promotion would be reversed.
This would then counter any speculation, and although with the squad Sorries have, automatic promotion is not assured.There are some good teams who will not give up the fight easily.The international distractions does not make it a given.

One thing more irritating than putting ' Fact' after a statement is when the statement is incorrect.
Exiles are not relegated to the Championship.
There was forensic examination (I suggest you don't use the term if you don't know what it means).
The Premiership salary cap is relevant for clubs in the ERC seeking promotion.

Oh, and your 'subjective' comments which obfuscate constructive advice with dirt fishing indicate a lack of awareness of the existing Minimum Standards Criteria.

[WhitecapTiger]

Salary caps are not relevant for ERC. Fact

But as you qualify for the EPRC tournaments through a league where a salary cap is relevant, surely if you ignore the rules/regulations for that then Euro qualification should also be 'tainted'.

But this has been done to death.

Agree with your last sentence, and that Euro qualifications are morally tainted. However, their finishing positions in the Premiership still stand, so they still qualified for the competition.

Understand that, and I'm sure you understand/understood my general gist; Their league standings stood, as did their Euro qualifications, but many, if not most, were gained whilst cheating the regulations (and their Premiership peers) - but that cannot be retrospectively applied as a punishment, I believe, because no such punishment was available to mete out.

As I said, done to death.

[Dangerous4]

What I can't get my head round is why world class players want to play for a club with a tin pot ground, very few fans, and little or no atmosphere, particularly after the club was found to be corrupt.

Yes, I do smell a rat, but as I stated previously I may be being cynical. Maybe it's my police training, which has never left me!

[h's dad]

What I can't get my head round is why world class players want to play for a club with a tin pot ground, very few fans, and little or no atmosphere, particularly after the club was found to be corrupt.

Yes, I do smell a rat, but as I stated previously I may be being cynical. Maybe it's my police training, which has never left me!

The players have always said they were very well looked after. And they were. Maybe there's a clue in there somewhere, Inspector -o

[mol2]

I guess it depends on the definition of "Well looked after"!

[sam16111986]

What I can't get my head round is why world class players want to play for a club with a tin pot ground, very few fans, and little or no atmosphere, particularly after the club was found to be corrupt.

Yes, I do smell a rat, but as I stated previously I may be being cynical. Maybe it's my police training, which has never left me!

The players have always said they were very well looked after. And they were. Maybe there's a clue in there somewhere, Inspector -o

Team bonding events and off field support were well publicised. Getting the right culture does help. I doubt there will be any further investigations until at least the end of the season after next in regards to Sarries.

I know that the lack of a forensic analysis of their books is frustrating but given the investigation had already generated enough evidence to find them guilty who wouldn't want to bring it all to a close? If it was your club and you were offered a big fine and relegation or several months of having your dirty laundry dragged through the papers and then a fine and relegation wouldn't you just jump ahead to the fine and relegation?

Sarries have lost a large number of quality players and if it wasn't for Covid limiting other clubs spending power they might have lost even more. It will be a big rebuild for then next summer.

[BengalTiger]

This sorry saga goes back to the previous sweep it under the carpet decision when the breaches were first found, not dealing with it robustly then allowed even more cheating.
Again the clubs have failed to clean the stables, allowing Sarries to accept a slap on the wrist without finding how far and how deep the corruption went was another poor decision, I feel it will come back once again to stink up the game, the fact it is still a subject for discussion shows that it is still polluting the game even now.

[sam16111986]

This sorry saga goes back to the previous sweep it under the carpet decision when the breaches were first found, not dealing with it robustly then allowed even more cheating.
Again the clubs have failed to clean the stables, allowing Sarries to accept a slap on the wrist without finding how far and how deep the corruption went was another poor decision, I feel it will come back once again to stink up the game, the fact it is still a subject for discussion shows that it is still polluting the game even now.

Ok I agree the first time round was a farce. However, the second time a slap on the wrist? They got fined more than £5m and relegated. As a result of relegation they've lost a number of key players and will have lost considerable funding from TV, attendances and competition earnings both domestically and in Europe.

What did you want them to do, force the club to disband and forever ban the name from being used?

[BengalTiger]

Ok I agree the first time round was a farce. However, the second time a slap on the wrist? They got fined more than £5m and relegated. As a result of relegation they've lost a number of key players and will have lost considerable funding from TV, attendances and competition earnings both domestically and in Europe.

What did you want them to do, force the club to disband and forever ban the name from being used?

Not making continued participation contingent on full disclosure of all past malpractices allows the stink to linger and there will always be a doubt about the level the current and past players, owners and coaches were complicit, this taints the innocent and the guilty.

[Scott1]

I have no idea about the legal side of things but why were they given the option of having their books open,why couldnt they be forced?