Exeter Chiefs

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RagingBull
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by RagingBull »

Tigerbeat you can't talk about Exeter name and brand change without really talking about the other stuff.
It's the nature of this discussion.
Mark62
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 »

Cardiff Tig wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:32 pm The fact is that no one here is a Native American (yes, I know I'm making an assumption and I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong!). Therefore, the fact that you (in general, not any specific user) aren't offended by the Chief's cultural appropriation is pretty irrelevant.

Blaming political correctness is completely missing the point IMO.
I know I’m going off thread again, but do you have any examples of Native American groups complaining about the name, because I haven’t seen any, just comments from shall we call them special interest groups.
RagingBull
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by RagingBull »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:43 pm
Cardiff Tig wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:32 pm The fact is that no one here is a Native American (yes, I know I'm making an assumption and I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong!). Therefore, the fact that you (in general, not any specific user) aren't offended by the Chief's cultural appropriation is pretty irrelevant.

Blaming political correctness is completely missing the point IMO.
I know I’m going off thread again, but do you have any examples of Native American groups complaining about the name, because I haven’t seen any, just comments from shall we call them special interest groups.
Well it's the branding that's the biggest issue.
BFG
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by BFG »

RagingBull wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:40 pm Tigerbeat you can't talk about Exeter name and brand change without really talking about the other stuff.
It's the nature of this discussion.
I was thinking similar.
It's a difficult topic.
More emotive for Exeter people.
I try to imagine what it might be like if I were of Native American origin and in the Exeter stands on matchday, and I don't think I'd be comfortable if I'm being totally honest.
Mark62
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 »

BFG wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:47 pm
RagingBull wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:40 pm Tigerbeat you can't talk about Exeter name and brand change without really talking about the other stuff.
It's the nature of this discussion.
I was thinking similar.
It's a difficult topic.
More emotive for Exeter people.
I try to imagine what it might be like if I were of Native American origin and in the Exeter stands on matchday, and I don't think I'd be comfortable if I'm being totally honest.
So if I’m correct and apologies if I’m not, the name isn’t the issue, it’s the supporters in Native American garb, the club emblem and the mascot dressed as a chieftain, that certain groups take offence too, not the name.

Serious question has anyone contacted the Native American population to ask if they are offended
RagingBull
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by RagingBull »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:07 pm
BFG wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:47 pm
RagingBull wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:40 pm Tigerbeat you can't talk about Exeter name and brand change without really talking about the other stuff.
It's the nature of this discussion.
I was thinking similar.
It's a difficult topic.
More emotive for Exeter people.
I try to imagine what it might be like if I were of Native American origin and in the Exeter stands on matchday, and I don't think I'd be comfortable if I'm being totally honest.
So if I’m correct and apologies if I’m not, the name isn’t the issue, it’s the supporters in Native American garb, the club emblem and the mascot dressed as a chieftain, that certain groups take offence too, not the name.

Serious question has anyone contacted the Native American population to ask if they are offended
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Ci ... ontroversy
Mark62
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 »

That’s Kansas City 6 years ago not Exeter in 2020, but I take your point.
The article does mention the Native American dress and that Rudy Tomahawk Chop.

Bet even Exeter can’t offer their best player a half billion dollar contract like Kansas have
RagingBull
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by RagingBull »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:26 pm That’s Kansas City 6 years ago not Exeter in 2020, but I take your point.
The article does mention the Native American dress and that Rudy Tomahawk Chop.

Bet even Exeter can’t offer their best player a half billion dollar contract like Kansas have
It does.
Also Kansas city reached out to them which is why they don't get as much now.
Do you honestly think that Exeter have had any dialogue at all with the native Americans?
BFG
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by BFG »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:07 pm
BFG wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:47 pm
RagingBull wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:40 pm Tigerbeat you can't talk about Exeter name and brand change without really talking about the other stuff.
It's the nature of this discussion.
I was thinking similar.
It's a difficult topic.
More emotive for Exeter people.
I try to imagine what it might be like if I were of Native American origin and in the Exeter stands on matchday, and I don't think I'd be comfortable if I'm being totally honest.
So if I’m correct and apologies if I’m not, the name isn’t the issue, it’s the supporters in Native American garb, the club emblem and the mascot dressed as a chieftain, that certain groups take offence too, not the name.

Serious question has anyone contacted the Native American population to ask if they are offended
I've probably got as much idea as you.
I assume the name is coming into it because it's the title of the bigger package with the branding and stereotyping antics, but I may be wrong.
Chief as in Fire Chief wouldnt be an issue, unless the Fire Chief dressed up as a Native American and howled and danced around with a tomahawk, then the Chief title may be viewed differently by some.
Mark62
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 »

RagingBull wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:39 pm
Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:26 pm That’s Kansas City 6 years ago not Exeter in 2020, but I take your point.
The article does mention the Native American dress and that Rudy Tomahawk Chop.

Bet even Exeter can’t offer their best player a half billion dollar contract like Kansas have
It does.
Also Kansas city reached out to them which is why they don't get as much now.
Do you honestly think that Exeter have had any dialogue at all with the native Americans?
No I don’t which is sort of my point. Communication is a 2 way street, have the Native Americans been in touch with Exeter.
Anyway probably done this to death now, and if they are causing relevant parties offence let’s hope Exeter do the right thing.
Cardiff Tig
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Cardiff Tig »

I'm not sure it's a valid argument to say you won't change something because you're waiting for the people that are offended to complain enough about it.
Mark62
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Mark62 »

Cardiff Tig wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:00 pm I'm not sure it's a valid argument to say you won't change something because you're waiting for the people that are offended to complain enough about it.
My point is are they are offended, or is it other parties being offended for them, I’m trying not to use those 2 words, anyway nuff said it’ll get sorted if it need sorting
ourla
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by ourla »

Mark62 wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:04 pm
Cardiff Tig wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:00 pm I'm not sure it's a valid argument to say you won't change something because you're waiting for the people that are offended to complain enough about it.
My point is are they are offended, or is it other parties being offended for them, I’m trying not to use those 2 words, anyway nuff said it’ll get sorted if it need sorting
Not sure they have said they are specifically offended by Exeter but they have generically stated they are offended by sports teams using their culture and heritage as their own identity.

But also to note is perfectly legitimate to be offended on someone else's behalf. I someone made a racist comment in my company I would be offended, even if I wasn't the target of the racism. And I would be right to complain about it. In my diversity training at work it makes this point very specifically.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Crofty »

Even without the controversy surrounding their branding I think Exeter have to be the favourites to replace $arrie$ as the default villain of the league.

They're following the same path as Red Bull have in Formula 1, first they burst onto the scene as a somewhat unorthodox counterpoint to the established order, they then ruffle the feathers of some of the grandees of the sport making them a little bit of a darling for the media, next comes the success which, as it builds, is accompanied by more and more whinging from the organisation (and you can't say Exeter haven't been vocal in wanting $arrie$ shot at dawn for example).

There are now rumours that Exeter will be the first to break ranks over not taking advantage of the Covid contracts situations meanwhile Bristol are the media's new shiny thing and even we are starting to get some sympathy.
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?

non possumus capere
Cardiff Tig
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Re: Exeter Chiefs

Post by Cardiff Tig »

Crofty wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:33 am Even without the controversy surrounding their branding I think Exeter have to be the favourites to replace $arrie$ as the default villain of the league.

They're following the same path as Red Bull have in Formula 1, first they burst onto the scene as a somewhat unorthodox counterpoint to the established order, they then ruffle the feathers of some of the grandees of the sport making them a little bit of a darling for the media, next comes the success which, as it builds, is accompanied by more and more whinging from the organisation (and you can't say Exeter haven't been vocal in wanting $arrie$ shot at dawn for example).

There are now rumours that Exeter will be the first to break ranks over not taking advantage of the Covid contracts situations meanwhile Bristol are the media's new shiny thing and even we are starting to get some sympathy.
Personally, I think Exeter have also benefited from a lot of teams significantly underperforming in the last few seasons. Leicester, Gloucester & Wasps all have (should probably say had :smt002 ) squads that on paper are much much better than the performances seen. I'm not saying they don't deserve to be top of the league but I doubt anyone here would put any large amount of money on them ever performing well in Europe for instance.
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