House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

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kk20gb30
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by kk20gb30 »

We have to remember it is five years on - that says it all ; and for some there are always reasons ,excuses and vindications....
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
chipnchase
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by chipnchase »

ads wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:14 am I haven't watched it but read the BBC article and I do get the impression that Sam Burgess is very bitter about the whole England thing. He thought Union was gonna be easy, but he failed to nail down a position. Maybe that was partly Mike Fords fault for playing him in the back row. But I don't think Burgess does himself any favours by bleeting on....
I'd suggest you watch it, the BBC story takes snippets and twists it. Absolutely not bitter and talks very open and honestly.
He has nothing to gain and equally nothing to lose. And for the record this is the first time he has ever spoken publicly about it and in my opinion has been very dignified.
chipnchase
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by chipnchase »

Tiglon wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:38 am If we're talking about throwing toys out of the pram, Burgess would fit that description. Still whining about it 5 years later, you can tell he struggles to admit that he failed at something.

It all sounds a bit narcissistic and self-satisfied to me.
Again have you watched or listened to it? If you had you'll also be aware that he openly admits that he found it tough.
chipnchase
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by chipnchase »

As in my original post please watch the show or listen to the podcast.

Dont take the papers version of it at face value they are in no way representative of what was said.
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by RagingBull »

It's pretty much is in regards to the Fords though.

Nothing to gain is not really true.
He's a pundit now so this is good attention, especially since his current media attention is not really rugby related.
ads
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by ads »

And for the record this is the first time he has ever spoken publicly about it
Apart from the other times yes it is the first time.... At the bottom of the times story linked on the first page there is a previous story about him blaming others for Englands WC failure. Big ego's apparently, not his though....
Dr H Flashman MBE
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by Dr H Flashman MBE »

Does anyone have a link to this so i can take a listen? Please.
There is never any points for 2nd place...
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by speedski »

Dr H Flashman MBE wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:52 am Does anyone have a link to this so i can take a listen? Please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTEoltBWFnU
chipnchase
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by chipnchase »

Dr H Flashman MBE
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by Dr H Flashman MBE »

thank you.
There is never any points for 2nd place...
Alandrin75
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by Alandrin75 »

RagingBull wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:57 am So in burgess words how did Mike Ford undermine England?
Lets just say England had a dream when they convinced SB to come to Union a bit like England did when Jason Robinson came across and all other cross code players. The dream was Sam as 12 Sonny Bill style and Manu at 13. Bath bought along with the dream till the fateful moment when Bath said "How much are you paying towards his salary" at which point the RFU said "we can't do things like that any more".

Sat with a liability in salary that they thought would be subsidised and a HC who had a dream of taking over at England. Bath proceeded to come out in the press saying they saw SB as a 6 not a centre and chucked all the planned training out of the window and started training him as a backrow forward.

Fast forward to the world cup and SB had minimal playing time at centre, Manu was injured/banned and as I recall. We played Wales, SB marked Doc Roberts out the game, came off with England winning and the rest, as they say, is history.
sam16111986
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by sam16111986 »

Alandrin75 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:05 pm
RagingBull wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:57 am So in burgess words how did Mike Ford undermine England?
Lets just say England had a dream when they convinced SB to come to Union a bit like England did when Jason Robinson came across and all other cross code players. The dream was Sam as 12 Sonny Bill style and Manu at 13. Bath bought along with the dream till the fateful moment when Bath said "How much are you paying towards his salary" at which point the RFU said "we can't do things like that any more".

Sat with a liability in salary that they thought would be subsidised and a HC who had a dream of taking over at England. Bath proceeded to come out in the press saying they saw SB as a 6 not a centre and chucked all the planned training out of the window and started training him as a backrow forward.

Fast forward to the world cup and SB had minimal playing time at centre, Manu was injured/banned and as I recall. We played Wales, SB marked Doc Roberts out the game, came off with England winning and the rest, as they say, is history.
As per the interview, SB played 10 or 12 games at centre but Bath had Eastmond and Joseph in good form. He got moved to 6 but didn't play as a traditional 6 it was a hybrid role part flanker but would drop into the backline from lineouts etc. SB speaks very highly of that decision and thought it brought out the best in his game. So Ford was on to something as Bath played well during that period. That wasn't what England wanted but England weren't paying his salary.

Sounds like Lancaster and Farrell Snr did not get on and that became political. The bloated leadership squad with England gave way to a toxic atmosphere of infighting.

Sounds like it was just a mess and SB found himself at the centre of it.
johnthegriff
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by johnthegriff »

All boils down to the fact that Burgess simply did not have time to develop on Rugby Union and was just not good enough to merit selection for the World Cup squad. The same could have been said about Farrell senior a few years before but at least he like Jason Robinson committed to the 15 man game, Burgess did not and is now seeking to put blame elsewhere rather than recognising his own failure.
westwinds31
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by westwinds31 »

Burgess is doing some media work and has a clothing business that is up and running. He’s also working with South Sydney on defence. He had nothing to gain in my view. This happens a lot in rugby and in sporting team environments but people are too scared to say anything for fear of losing their place or worse still being sacked. There’s clearly something in it. Haskell was obviously aware of it. Burgess himself, he’s straight talking, tells it like it is which had got him into trouble on and off the field. Burgess says when he joined Bath & England he kept his head down, realising he was being looked at....who does this guy think he is, coming into our game etc but won respect for his passion, energy and effort. Played out of position and cracked on. Two sides to the story as they say....let’s see a response. Was Ford senior trying to undermine Lancaster ? Did Ford junior have a sulk when dropped ? I expect so, you’re never happy when left out. I wouldn’t be.
RagingBull
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Re: House of Rugby - Burgess on the Fords

Post by RagingBull »

"Burgess is doing some media work and has a clothing business that is up and running. He’s also working with South Sydney on defence. He had nothing to gain in my view."

Isn't that something to gain?
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