Steve Borthwick

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newport tiger
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Steve Borthwick

Post by newport tiger » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:00 pm

I think the mood has lifted and there is even a bit of optimism in some quarters regarding the coaching set up. I remember when Mark Bakewell was appointed as the forwards coach a certain Steve Borthwick was quoted as saying "He is the best forwards coach i have ever worked with". Given that, its probably fair to assume he will be using similar techniques so are we going to see any big changes? Its probably more down to the players ability than the coach so i guess its a case of watch this space.

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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by sapajo » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:31 pm

You can employ the best coaches in the world but that whilst that may lead players to the proverbial rugby fountain it cannot and will not force then to drink. Its a 2 way transaction.
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RagingBull
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by RagingBull » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:02 pm

Why would he be using similar techniques?

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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by newport tiger » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:30 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:02 pm
Why would he be using similar techniques?
If he respected Mark Bakewell so much it goes without saying that he will adopt some of his methods. For the record i would like to say i have nothing against Mr Bakewell or his coaching methods, i'm a firm believer that we haven't had the personnel required for the job for a few seasons now.

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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by kk20gb30 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:52 am

Simply put , the playing staff have to buy into the Coaches philosophy.Those that can't or will not have to be sacrificed - no matter who they are.Much good will and favour seems to have been generated regarding our new proposed coaching set up and personally I hold high hopes for its success.At this juncture we cannot be anything other than optimistic.

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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by Tiglon » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:52 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Borthwick only worked with Bakewell at Bath, 11 years ago. That's a long time ago in a sport that has changed so much. Maybe Bakewell was a brilliant forwards coach in 2009, but maybe he isn't now.

I'm not sure which other forwards coaches Borthwick worked with, so maybe there isn't much competition. You've also got to consider that when asked to go on record about a former colleague, any vaguely professional individual is going to say nice things.

I don't think that there is any persuasive reason to believe that Borthwick's methods will mirror Bakewell's. Quite the opposite, it seems incredibly unlikely that Borthwick would have achieved so much success and respect in the modern game by copying the techniques of Bakewell 2009.

There are plenty of people I have worked with and think were brilliant but I do things my own way. I'm sure Borthwick has the strength of mind to do the same.

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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by RagingBull » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:15 am

I echo Tiglons thoughts

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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by JP14 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:23 am

Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:52 am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Borthwick only worked with Bakewell at Bath, 11 years ago. That's a long time ago in a sport that has changed so much. Maybe Bakewell was a brilliant forwards coach in 2009, but maybe he isn't now.

I'm not sure which other forwards coaches Borthwick worked with, so maybe there isn't much competition. You've also got to consider that when asked to go on record about a former colleague, any vaguely professional individual is going to say nice things.

I don't think that there is any persuasive reason to believe that Borthwick's methods will mirror Bakewell's. Quite the opposite, it seems incredibly unlikely that Borthwick would have achieved so much success and respect in the modern game by copying the techniques of Bakewell 2009.

There are plenty of people I have worked with and think were brilliant but I do things my own way. I'm sure Borthwick has the strength of mind to do the same.
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by DingDong » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:33 am

Forget the 11 years a go reference, for the past 5 years Borthwick has been coaching England to the standard any club would bite his hand off for. World class and completely in tune with todays game and the right players will buy into this.

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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by sam16111986 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:42 am

I agree with Tiglon as well. I'm sure Borthwick will have taken what he liked from working with Bakewell and adding it to his own experience and knowledge. He's worked with some good coaches and DORs. He worked with Gustard, Sanderson and McCall at Sarries. Over in Japan he started coaching with Eddie Jones and Scott Wismantle. Lately with England there has been Mitchell, Gustard again and Proudfoot. Borthwick has a wealth of experience and his style won't be defined by just one coach.

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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by Mark62 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:39 am

newport tiger wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:00 pm
I think the mood has lifted and there is even a bit of optimism in some quarters regarding the coaching set up. I remember when Mark Bakewell was appointed as the forwards coach a certain Steve Borthwick was quoted as saying "He is the best forwards coach i have ever worked with". Given that, its probably fair to assume he will be using similar techniques so are we going to see any big changes? Its probably more down to the players ability than the coach so i guess its a case of watch this space.
Interesting that with all the positive comments re Borthwick and the fact that he is a genuine world class coach, some still see the need to find a negative. I know this is driven by the state the team is in prior to his arrival, but I do find it a little disappointing

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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by Dangerous4 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:31 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:52 am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Borthwick only worked with Bakewell at Bath, 11 years ago. That's a long time ago in a sport that has changed so much. Maybe Bakewell was a brilliant forwards coach in 2009, but maybe he isn't now.

I'm not sure which other forwards coaches Borthwick worked with, so maybe there isn't much competition. You've also got to consider that when asked to go on record about a former colleague, any vaguely professional individual is going to say nice things.

I don't think that there is any persuasive reason to believe that Borthwick's methods will mirror Bakewell's. Quite the opposite, it seems incredibly unlikely that Borthwick would have achieved so much success and respect in the modern game by copying the techniques of Bakewell 2009.

There are plenty of people I have worked with and think were brilliant but I do things my own way. I'm sure Borthwick has the strength of mind to do the same.
Spot on Tiglon. :smt023

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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by TigerCam » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:23 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:31 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:52 am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Borthwick only worked with Bakewell at Bath, 11 years ago. That's a long time ago in a sport that has changed so much. Maybe Bakewell was a brilliant forwards coach in 2009, but maybe he isn't now.

I'm not sure which other forwards coaches Borthwick worked with, so maybe there isn't much competition. You've also got to consider that when asked to go on record about a former colleague, any vaguely professional individual is going to say nice things.

I don't think that there is any persuasive reason to believe that Borthwick's methods will mirror Bakewell's. Quite the opposite, it seems incredibly unlikely that Borthwick would have achieved so much success and respect in the modern game by copying the techniques of Bakewell 2009.

There are plenty of people I have worked with and think were brilliant but I do things my own way. I'm sure Borthwick has the strength of mind to do the same.
Spot on Tiglon. :smt023
I believe that Steve being the 'hard-nosed' individual that we have seen on the pitch will be the 'hard-nosed' coach that the Tigers really do need if they are to return to the days of where Steve himself found WR a very difficult place to play and indeed win - looking forward to the new season.
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ourla
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by ourla » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:45 pm

Mark62 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:39 am
newport tiger wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:00 pm
I think the mood has lifted and there is even a bit of optimism in some quarters regarding the coaching set up. I remember when Mark Bakewell was appointed as the forwards coach a certain Steve Borthwick was quoted as saying "He is the best forwards coach i have ever worked with". Given that, its probably fair to assume he will be using similar techniques so are we going to see any big changes? Its probably more down to the players ability than the coach so i guess its a case of watch this space.
Interesting that with all the positive comments re Borthwick and the fact that he is a genuine world class coach, some still see the need to find a negative. I know this is driven by the state the team is in prior to his arrival, but I do find it a little disappointing
I read it differently. Didn't see at as particularly negative.

I think if Borthwick had been brought in as a forwards coach at the same time as Bakewell was and worked under the same regime with the same players I am not sure the result would have been much different. A lot of things are different now and of course Borthwick is coming in as a Head Coach and is much younger. So I don't think it makes sense to compare or think in this way.
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Re: Steve Borthwick

Post by sk 88 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:04 pm

newport tiger wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:00 pm
I think the mood has lifted and there is even a bit of optimism in some quarters regarding the coaching set up. I remember when Mark Bakewell was appointed as the forwards coach a certain Steve Borthwick was quoted as saying "He is the best forwards coach i have ever worked with". Given that, its probably fair to assume he will be using similar techniques so are we going to see any big changes? Its probably more down to the players ability than the coach so i guess its a case of watch this space.
A bit of research suggests that quote was from when Bakewell left Bath in 2009. Therefore I don't agree that it is "probably fair to assume he will be using similar techniques".
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