Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:23 pm
Beetham was a bit of MOC genius if I remember correctly...
Oh yes signs a 2 year extension with Tigers, 5 months later is released because he isn’t in the plans. A quality player who could cover wing and 13, also had great chemistry with the players around him.
Same with McAffrey, let these players go and never replaced them with like for like quality. How many problems does the team face now that can be traced back to MOC gutting the squad.
Last edited by Leicestertinytiger on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I may be very wide of the mark here, but I’m lead to believe that the partners of Vieanu, Tuilagi, May and ex partner of Ford are very close. Maybe this is where some of the negative comments have come from.
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:23 pm
Beetham was a bit of MOC genius if I remember correctly...
Oh yes signs a 2 year extension with Tigers, 5 months later is released because he isn’t in the plans. A quality player who could cover wing and 13, also had great chemistry with the players around him.
Same with McAffrey, let these players go and never replaced them with like for like quality. How many problems does the team face now that can be traced back to MOC gutting the squad.
Some of our more deep seated issues are from MOCs first stint at Tigers.
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:23 pm
Beetham was a bit of MOC genius if I remember correctly...
Oh yes signs a 2 year extension with Tigers, 5 months later is released because he isn’t in the plans. A quality player who could cover wing and 13, also had great chemistry with the players around him.
Same with McAffrey, let these players go and never replaced them with like for like quality. How many problems does the team face now that can be traced back to MOC gutting the squad.
Some of our more deep seated issues are from MOCs first stint at Tigers.
Not being argumentative., Genuinely interested in your perspective. What would those 'more deep seated issues' be from MOCs first stint?
Oh yes signs a 2 year extension with Tigers, 5 months later is released because he isn’t in the plans. A quality player who could cover wing and 13, also had great chemistry with the players around him.
Same with McAffrey, let these players go and never replaced them with like for like quality. How many problems does the team face now that can be traced back to MOC gutting the squad.
Some of our more deep seated issues are from MOCs first stint at Tigers.
Not being argumentative., Genuinely interested in your perspective. What would those 'more deep seated issues' be from MOCs first stint?
I don't know whether it was down to MOC, Cockers or both, but I remember commenting at the time that they rarely, if ever, used replacements, even if we were winning by a safe margin. So no developing of younger players, giving them experience etc.
I've no idea of what went on behind the scenes apart from rumours on here.
Oh yes signs a 2 year extension with Tigers, 5 months later is released because he isn’t in the plans. A quality player who could cover wing and 13, also had great chemistry with the players around him.
Same with McAffrey, let these players go and never replaced them with like for like quality. How many problems does the team face now that can be traced back to MOC gutting the squad.
Some of our more deep seated issues are from MOCs first stint at Tigers.
Not being argumentative., Genuinely interested in your perspective. What would those 'more deep seated issues' be from MOCs first stint?
General poor skill levels, back play prehistoric at times, Ayerza & Castro had the best passing skills at one point.
All very safe & looking at today & not tomorrow, we stood still & got overtaken fast.
Not sure I agree with some of the comments re Cocker and M.O.C years, a lot of young players came through at that time including Manu, for me the main problems started when Anthony Allen and Manu both got major injuries at the same time, Billy Twelvetrees had already decided that he was behind them in the pecking order andagreed the move to Gloucester and our remaining centres were just not good enough and injured. Betham when he came initially as a wing did a great job in the centre for us but went off in his second season under Mauger, then M.O.C returned and then we had problems, McCaffrey was never given chance, Thacker was not rated, etc, etc
I have to say that I really like the way Tigers have been announcing the news this week starting with the youngsters and gradually building up in importance to the 1st XV. Let's hope that Bondi's tweet that the best is to come tomorrow really brings us to believe in the future of the club and exceeds our expectations and that Taufua is one of the announcements. My only worry is that Andrea said 15 re-signings and we have had 14 if we include the 5 dev squad youngsters which were announced 1st of all.
johnthegriff wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:38 pm
Not sure I agree with some of the comments re Cocker and M.O.C years, a lot of young players came through at that time including Manu, for me the main problems started when Anthony Allen and Manu both got major injuries at the same time, Billy Twelvetrees had already decided that he was behind them in the pecking order andagreed the move to Gloucester and our remaining centres were just not good enough and injured. Betham when he came initially as a wing did a great job in the centre for us but went off in his second season under Mauger, then M.O.C returned and then we had problems, McCaffrey was never given chance, Thacker was not rated, etc, etc
I still believe that Parling and Salvi were big losses and with them went a level of control of the basics of the line out and breakdown that are required, areas which probably weren't as appreciated as much as they should be.
The percentages of those two players in their specialty areas was a good platform.
Even scrum control was lost for a period which is just unthinkable for Leicester and shows how muddled things had become.
johnthegriff wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:38 pm
Not sure I agree with some of the comments re Cocker and M.O.C years, a lot of young players came through at that time including Manu, for me the main problems started when Anthony Allen and Manu both got major injuries at the same time, Billy Twelvetrees had already decided that he was behind them in the pecking order andagreed the move to Gloucester and our remaining centres were just not good enough and injured. Betham when he came initially as a wing did a great job in the centre for us but went off in his second season under Mauger, then M.O.C returned and then we had problems, McCaffrey was never given chance, Thacker was not rated, etc, etc
I still believe that Parling and Salvi were big losses and with them went a level of control of the basics of the line out and breakdown that are required, areas which probably weren't as appreciated as much as they should be.
The percentages of those two players in their specialty areas was a good platform.
Agree with you both. Betham was outstanding first season but error prone and anonymous in the second, no idea why. Allen's injury was a huge blow, as were the losses of Salvi and Parling. Allen was the equivalent of them in the backs - excellent professional who did the basics with excellence and organised well. Nothing flashy but has been sorely missed ever since.
Some of our more deep seated issues are from MOCs first stint at Tigers.
Not being argumentative., Genuinely interested in your perspective. What would those 'more deep seated issues' be from MOCs first stint?
General poor skill levels, back play prehistoric at times, Ayerza & Castro had the best passing skills at one point.
All very safe & looking at today & not tomorrow, we stood still & got overtaken fast.
MOC never interested in developing players from within:"I'm the first team coach". My criticisms at the time are exactly those you mentioned, I actually shouted rude comments one game as we seemed to be playing either flat pat-a-cake or slow circle ball. I date our decline from then, it was delayed by having some exceptional players on the park who played what was in front of them, principally Flood. Cockers fault was meekly letting MOC get away with it, some of the pack used to take the mickey out of MOC in training, but some star backs liked him and not Cockers. 12T was never flavour of the month under MOC.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Not being argumentative., Genuinely interested in your perspective. What would those 'more deep seated issues' be from MOCs first stint?
General poor skill levels, back play prehistoric at times, Ayerza & Castro had the best passing skills at one point.
All very safe & looking at today & not tomorrow, we stood still & got overtaken fast.
MOC never interested in developing players from within:"I'm the first team coach". My criticisms at the time are exactly those you mentioned, I actually shouted rude comments one game as we seemed to be playing either flat pat-a-cake or slow circle ball. I date our decline from then, it was delayed by having some exceptional players on the park who played what was in front of them, principally Flood. Cockers fault was meekly letting MOC get away with it, some of the pack used to take the mickey out of MOC in training, but some star backs liked him and not Cockers. 12T was never flavour of the month under MOC.
I was happy when MOC left to go to Leinster and then dispaired when we brought him back again. I think our biggest issue was that we kept Cockers as DOR instead of asking him to step back down to head coach and then looking to bring in a DOR that could have overseen a rebuild of our attacking play whilst Cockers kept hold of the forwards and doing what he was doing. Keeping him as the main man and bringing people underneath him just undermined the less experienced coaches who clashed with Cockers who seemed to overrule them. Hindsight is of course 20/20 but MOC was really not a good coach.
I remember one game where a pass from 12T put Murphy at pace into a gap, massively rare in English Rugby then & now.
12T & Manu should of been Tigers & England centre combo.
trendylfj wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:51 pm
I have to say that I really like the way Tigers have been announcing the news this week starting with the youngsters and gradually building up in importance to the 1st XV. Let's hope that Bondi's tweet that the best is to come tomorrow really brings us to believe in the future of the club and exceeds our expectations and that Taufua is one of the announcements. My only worry is that Andrea said 15 re-signings and we have had 14 if we include the 5 dev squad youngsters which were announced 1st of all.
My understanding from Andrea's comments was that there are 5 (?6) who could not sign the proposed reduced pay deal; the remainder of the squad could sign, of whom 15 had agreed new longer term contracts. The remainder who signed had therefore agreed to the reduced pay deal for the duration of their existing contract. I may have that wrong but that is what I took from the interview.
