LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

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sapajo
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by sapajo » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:32 am

Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:05 am
What was Manu rumoured to be on, £550k? :smt017 Pretty sure we would be able to pick up Kerevi, Kruindrani, Kriel or Am for £400k. Plenty of very good options at 13 out there which I’m sure McGinty is already on the case.
That presumes Manu will no longer continue to be paid by the club until such times as he signs a new contract elsewhere.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by sam16111986 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:34 am

MCC1964 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:18 am
rdracup wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:12 am
Good summary. Only other negotiation point is the voluntary 25% cut in salary that preceded this.

Do players have a claim on it and could it be a lever on both sides to get a clean break so all parties can move on.
Well Foy reported in the Mail yesterdeay that the club didn't have a leg to stand on legally in that Manu, for example, could go to another Permiership club that could take him on a 'modest' contract whilst he claims the rest of his contract from us. I'm sure each party is fully aware of the various consequences of these actions.

I do really want to move on now, but I guess we're not done yet.
I'd assume that his contract forbids him from playing for another club whilst contracted to Tigers without our expressed permission.
Mo Leicester wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:02 am

They are still “employed” under their original contract.

They will continue to be paid by the club until they cancel the contract.

They will not be invited to play or train with Leicester under their current contract.

They will not be able to play for anyone else whist under contract to Leicester.

Leicester cannot replace them (all) as their pay (probably c£1.5M) will still form part of the salary cap.

They cannot (Daily Mail) sign for another club and claim a salary “top up” from Leicester as to sign for someone else they have to “voluntarily” cancel their Leicester contract.

They have not been “let go” they have been “stood down” and allowed to look for an alternative employer. They will be paid until they do so.
I thought players that play no matches for their club in a given season don't count towards the cap. Obviously we'd need to see some of those guys leave before signing contracts with new players because as you say we're still paying their wages until they agree to terminate their contracts. We need to save money so can't be paying players who are stood down and their replacements. There's nothing to stop Manu sitting at home for a year and collecting his wages.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by Coops » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:36 am

RagingBull wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:25 am
Is it me or does anyone not find it odd that the club hasn't put anything official about the leavers up yet?
It's been confirmed last night, so why isn't there a statement up like usual on the website?
Veainu is 100% leaving that is clear.
But wonder if the others are more 90% off still?

:smt017

IDK just find it odd.
Think the club (and players) need to let the dust settle, I do believe there will be further twists to this saga yet. Once it's all sorted, I'm sure the club will formally confirm arrivals and leavers.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by jgriffin » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:43 am

RagingBull wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:25 am
Is it me or does anyone not find it odd that the club hasn't put anything official about the leavers up yet?
It's been confirmed last night, so why isn't there a statement up like usual on the website?
Veainu is 100% leaving that is clear.
But wonder if the others are more 90% off still?

:smt017

IDK just find it odd.
I suppose it's because they haven't left, they've just refused the new conditions and the club has stood them down- furloughed if you like. I would be surprised, unless the club has made other plans, if the opportunity to row back is not left for one or two of them though I suspect since the leaker has to be one of them or someone close the goodwill has totally evaporated.
To those who go on about other clubs managing it better, you won't know unless someone there leaks it to the press. Tigers extension conditions seem to be very similar to those at Sale, and of course if anyone believes that Brucie and his fellow billionaires are not doing something Sarries inspired, well can I sell you a yacht?
As for survival, we are nowhere near Wasps situation (£50m down and losing millions) nor effectively owned offshore (like Quins), nor Newcastle (half a team left and a club in disarray) and Irish seem to have a lot of issues with players that haven't been trumpeted to the media. We have a new and very promising coaching team, a lot of good emerging players, a core of excellent players and a half season to bed in some new systems at no cost.
As for Tuafua, if McGinity rows him back in, it's the icing on a new cake.
Finally, about time some of you posters thought about the 31 redundancies. I hope the club does as hinted last night and makes THEM a priority when good times return.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by Crumblies » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:53 am

Grumpy of Crumbie wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:09 am
Could I just ask those posters who are constantly criticising the club for the way they have handled this to explain what they would like to have happened instead? I would be interested in hearing an alternative approach.

Anybody.........?
Well for a start let’s put aside whether or not the dealings with the players were done in an autocratic manner for which the Tigers have significant previous e.g. Moody, Slater, Waldrom, Salvi, Castro, Burns etc.

What about we supporters who were given 2 weeks to decide whether to ask for a refund on season tickets, donate it to the club or to leave the money in the clubs ‘safe hands’ set against future unknown events/purchases.

Don’t you think there was at least a moral obligation on the club to its ‘Tigers Family’ to at least make us aware of the difficult negotiations taking place and the possible loss of a number of high profile players. Not to continue to spin us a line telling us more significant signings were due to be announced next week.

May be then Season Ticket holders armed with the uncomfortable facts might have come to a different decision.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by RagingBull » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:57 am

For any supporters who did not complete the online form, the club will retain the sum paid as a donation on the basis that the consumer retains the option to request a refund up until 5.00pm on the final working day before the first game of the 2020/21 season is played.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by Crumblies » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:11 am

RagingBull wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:57 am
For any supporters who did not complete the online form, the club will retain the sum paid as a donation on the basis that the consumer retains the option to request a refund up until 5.00pm on the final working day before the first game of the 2020/21 season is played.
Thank you for further clarification on that Raging Bull.

For what it’s worth and just in case others think differently I feel the senior management faced with these horrible decisions have come to the correct conclusions.

However I am one who also believes they are not beyond criticism and I don’t like to see ‘my club’ dragged through the mud by the gutter press aided by disenchanted players, their agents or their partners.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by MCC1964 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:16 am

Crumblies wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:11 am
RagingBull wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:57 am
For any supporters who did not complete the online form, the club will retain the sum paid as a donation on the basis that the consumer retains the option to request a refund up until 5.00pm on the final working day before the first game of the 2020/21 season is played.
Thank you for further clarification on that Raging Bull.

For what it’s worth and just in case others think differently I feel the senior management faced with these horrible decisions have come to the correct conclusions.

However I am one who also believes they are not beyond criticism and I don’t like to see ‘my club’ dragged through the mud by the gutter press aided by disenchanted players, their agents or their partners.
And the club themselves IMHO have also recognised that they are not above criticism which is why they appointed Paddy Howard to review and have reacted to that view. Look at the access we’ve had via LTTV to the opinions of Peter Tom, Andrea, Jan, Jordan, Dr Singh to name a few. Would this have happened twelve months ago? I’m not so sure it would have. I firmly believe we are heading in the right direction. But there will be blips along the way.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by RichieB » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:19 am

I know this is semantics, but I thought Murphy said in the LTTV interview a few weeks ago that we could pay up to the cap, not that we would. Given the worsening economic situation in front
of them, they might in fact decide that paying up to the cap isn't financially sustainable at this moment in time.

I thought it was astute of Andrea to recognise what she referred to as 'the pot of gold' in terms of the academy. Murphy is clearly going to be diverted away from coaching and it seems the academy is high on his new agenda. The implication from this is that we are increasing the focus on bringing through young talent in the near future rather than relying on buying in the so-called stars from other clubs.

Just think of the savings from paying agents fees!

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by Tiglon » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:31 am

There is "constructive dismissal" - telling a player you want them to leave and not to return to their workplace does sound like something that could well constitute this, but I assume the club have lawyers that can advise much better on this than I can.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by mol2 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:33 am

It is far from clear if the problem is that Tigers haven't got the cash or that they need to comply with the new salary cap.

If they don't have the cash then they have to do what they have to including offloading some high salaries.

If it is merely to comply with the new salary cap I suspect the legal people will take the view that the reduced salary cap was a choice made by Tigers and not a force majeure. (Don't salary cap changes have to have agreement from all clubs?) Could result in litigation and prove very expensive if the courts decide that the contract terminations are invalid and refusing to play the player may be seen to be harmful to international career earnings, personal sponsorship and the like.

If they are still saying they can afford to spend up to the salary cap I would be surprised and I bet the lawyers are telling the coaching staff not to repeat that claim.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by Mark62 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:37 am

Always some road humps along the way, but will the club as a whole come out stronger at the end of all this, I believe it will.
This whole contract issue could have been handled better by both sides, but I would guess that’s true of the majority of negotiations, the thing that all fans have found distasteful is the leaks to the press, I believe Andrea said that the details of a conversation with one of the players appeared on The Mail website within 5 minutes. IMO whoever that player is should have his contract terminated for gross misconduct.
Same goes for TVs partner, if indeed it was her, ranting on social media, she is entitled to her opinion but it isn’t necessary.

So it’s time for the next step, new coaching team, blank piece of paper, and some really exciting young talent, both home grown and bought in.
People have said what has Borthwick let himself in for. For a coach there can’t be anything more exciting than having that blank canvas to express himself on, and the fact that he has a number of mean nothing games to finish this season will be very helpful.
So time to draw a line, for people to admit mistakes, and I look forward to Mr. R Bulls latest thread on players movements, hopefully once the situation regarding Taufua has been clarified .
As a last comment I would be interested to hear the opinions of other forum users as to how they feel the club could have acted differently given that they are currently on course to loose £10 million in revenue by the end of 2020

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by trendylfj » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:43 am

Tiglon wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:31 am
There is "constructive dismissal" - telling a player you want them to leave and not to return to their workplace does sound like something that could well constitute this, but I assume the club have lawyers that can advise much better on this than I can.
Not sure they have been dismissed and also not sure what being stood down actually means - I believe it is just saying that you are no longer required for the team and if you want to find another club we will not stand in your way. I googled it and found this lawyer's advice.

https://www.monacosolicitors.co.uk/cons ... sal-claims?

Only around 5% of claims of constructive dismissal succeed in winning compensation in the employment tribunal. The main reason is that tribunals decide that there is insufficient evidence to show that the employer’s conduct was so bad that leaving was the only option
Hehehehehehehehe

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by Traveller » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:47 am

Crumblies wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:11 am
RagingBull wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:57 am
For any supporters who did not complete the online form, the club will retain the sum paid as a donation on the basis that the consumer retains the option to request a refund up until 5.00pm on the final working day before the first game of the 2020/21 season is played.
Thank you for further clarification on that Raging Bull.

For what it’s worth and just in case others think differently I feel the senior management faced with these horrible decisions have come to the correct conclusions.

However I am one who also believes they are not beyond criticism and I don’t like to see ‘my club’ dragged through the mud by the gutter press aided by disenchanted players, their agents or their partners.
I've been very critical of the Board / COE these past four five years. However these are unprecedented times and I don't know any business that is handling these things perfectly. If your are an on line grocery retailer then your ship has come in. If your billionaire mummy and daddy have bought you a nightclub (or a rugby club) because they can, it makes no difference whether you lose a £1or £1m. But if you are a PLC premiership rugby club, and income stops, but expenditure stays the same and you have no indication when you're income will return - the focus has to be on survival.

I'm preferring to take make a judgement on the board leadership, based on what I knew to be the position prior to Covid. They had recruited a fantastic coaching team, strengthen the pack, seemed to have recruited well (I don't recall people saying that Nandolo, Scott, Brink, Mamukashvili were poor signings) have encouraged some genuinely exciting homegrown talent. Things were looking far more positive.

I wonder how many of us on here would have been able to manage this situation more successfully. Frankly if the club survives into next season and isn't relegated it'll be a success for me, and a position from which we can build, just so long as the supporters remain loyal to the club.

The old saying 'you get a different result if you iron a dirty shirt, than when you iron a shirt that has been washed" is apt. It could just be that whilst some other clubs are making short term decisions to alleviate the pain, the Leicester Board might be credited for washing their shirt before ironing it. I hope so. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

As for the media, well it's a story because it's Leicester Tigers and that is going to be a story. I don't mean to belittle other clubs but Sale, Worcester, London Irish etc just don't have the same profile. In good times Tigers will be a story for the media and so too in tough times.

Come on Tigers.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD Part 2

Post by westwinds31 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:51 am

Grumpy of Crumbie wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:09 am
Could I just ask those posters who are constantly criticising the club for the way they have handled this to explain what they would like to have happened instead? I would be interested in hearing an alternative approach.

Playing it out in the press is not great but it has been determined that this wasn’t the club, so how would those criticising the approach have looked to repair the damage of losing £5 million and counting?

Anybody.........?
You can understand the frustration from people surely ? The press leak has been the icing on the top of a pretty awful cake. I don't think it's necessarily aimed at the club, it's the whole picture and the build up of events from 6 or 7 years ago, recruitment, coaches, board, communication and now this. The force majure of the pandemic came from left field, but it could have been handled better. The figures are the figures.

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