LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

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JP14
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by JP14 » Tue May 26, 2020 5:25 pm

Well as a very wise man apparently did not say there’s “lies, damned lies and statistics.”
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by Dangerous4 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:14 pm

Mark62 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:21 pm
[*]
DingDong wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:01 pm
For all you stat lovers!! -for the last 5 Premiership games Olowofela started on the wing, his stats in bold and our other winger that day in brackets:

Versus Worcester
Metres run - 22 (0) - Tackles made - 4 (6) - Tackles missed - 5 (1)

Versus Sale
Metres run - 4 (13) - Tackles made - 2 (3) - Tackles missed - 3 (0)

Versus Bath
Metres run - 31 (30) - Tackles made - 5 (2) - Tackles missed - 3 (1)

Versus Bristol
Metres run - 29 (140) - Tackles made - 6 (9) - Tackles missed - 5 (0)

Versus Irish
Metres run - 60 (23) - Tackles made - 1 (5) - Tackles missed - 2 (1)

Overall makes average metres, doesn't make as many tackles, misses a whole lot more! The second worse for tries scored (by one try!). Start him in the Premiership Cup games but not Premiership starting quality by a country mile, if you want Tigers to compete at the top.
So I hope all these posters that are bringing up these stats, won’t be the same ones that are complaining that we haven’t given a young player a chance, when he moves to another club.
So play him even though his overall quality is below Premiership standard? Then wonder why we end up low down!

How crazy can you get?

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by Tiglon » Tue May 26, 2020 6:25 pm

He's a young Tigers player and therefore statistics are meaningless. :smt003

Look, let's be honest - he's got talent and potential, but he very clearly isn't yet a first choice winger at a club who has ambitions of being in the top 6, never mind the top 4. Perhaps over the coming months he will develop into that, but he isn't there right now.

He needs to be given game time, but he needs to show that he's improving too. It's a two way street and those tackling stats are simply not acceptable at this level - if they aren't any better next season and he still isn't scoring many tries (regardless of who is playing 10) then I don't see how we can continue to invest in him or hope that one day he'll suddenly come good.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by Mark62 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:29 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:14 pm
Mark62 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:21 pm
[*]
DingDong wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:01 pm
For all you stat lovers!! -for the last 5 Premiership games Olowofela started on the wing, his stats in bold and our other winger that day in brackets:

Versus Worcester
Metres run - 22 (0) - Tackles made - 4 (6) - Tackles missed - 5 (1)

Versus Sale
Metres run - 4 (13) - Tackles made - 2 (3) - Tackles missed - 3 (0)

Versus Bath
Metres run - 31 (30) - Tackles made - 5 (2) - Tackles missed - 3 (1)

Versus Bristol
Metres run - 29 (140) - Tackles made - 6 (9) - Tackles missed - 5 (0)

Versus Irish
Metres run - 60 (23) - Tackles made - 1 (5) - Tackles missed - 2 (1)

Overall makes average metres, doesn't make as many tackles, misses a whole lot more! The second worse for tries scored (by one try!). Start him in the Premiership Cup games but not Premiership starting quality by a country mile, if you want Tigers to compete at the top.
So I hope all these posters that are bringing up these stats, won’t be the same ones that are complaining that we haven’t given a young player a chance, when he moves to another club.
So play him even though his overall quality is below Premiership standard? Then wonder why we end up low down!

How crazy can you get?
The only people who’s opinion matters are the coaches, the opinions of people on here don’t mean a jot when it comes to selecting the team.
If the new head coach and attack coach feel there is something to work with and he is good enough they will select him.
There are still some posters, and you may be among them, who will damn them if they do and damn them if they don’t

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by RagingBull » Tue May 26, 2020 6:49 pm

I mean in terms of attack
Holmes in the same games as Olowofela pretty much gets the same amount

Worcester
Holmes - Meters 0, Defenders beaten 1
Olowofela - Meters 22, Defenders beaten 3

Sale
Holmes - 13, 1
Olowofela - 4, 0 (did miss some minutes due to being subbed for a card and Heyes having to sub with him)

Bath
Holmes - 36, 1
Olowofela - 31, 3

Irish
Holmes (at 15) - 85, 6
Olowofela - 60, 1

Gloucester
Holmes - 35, 1
Olowofela - 92, 10

Total
Holmes Meters - 169, defenders beaten 10
Olowofela - 209, 17 beaten

(Only other game Olowofela started was v Bristol)

Tries in the premiership this season
Holmes - 1
Olowofela - 1

Olowofela defence compared to Holmes is the glaring difference though and why he shouldn't be starting but I do find it funny when people talking about average attack as if it's a individual trait, when not even a International Winger such as Holmes has really been that much above him in the games played together.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by Tiglon » Tue May 26, 2020 7:04 pm

This whole "does Olowofela score enough tries" thing, I think, came from my comment that if he's going to get away with having such poor defence and physicality, he needs to be a Varndell type player who scores loads of tries.

So Holmes hasn't scored many tries other than in a couple of matches? True, but he is solid under the high ball, kicks well and defends well - he still contributes to the team even when he's not scoring. If Olowofela isn't scoring tries, what is he bringing to the team? Nothing. That is the point that so many of you seem to be missing.

So tell me, at the moment, what does Olowofela bring to the team and is this enough to mitigate being a liability in defence and in every physical contact he's involved in? Not what he might bring in the future, but what he brings right now.

A 22 year old winger who doesn't score tries, lacks any kind of physicality and is a liability in defence. That's why he's further away from the England squad now than he was 2 years ago.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by Mark62 » Tue May 26, 2020 7:10 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:04 pm
This whole "does Olowofela score enough tries" thing, I think, came from my comment that if he's going to get away with having such poor defence and physicality, he needs to be a Varndell type player who scores loads of tries.

So Holmes hasn't scored many tries other than in a couple of matches? True, but he is solid under the high ball, kicks well and defends well - he still contributes to the team even when he's not scoring. If Olowofela isn't scoring tries, what is he bringing to the team? Nothing. That is the point that so many of you seem to be missing.

So tell me, at the moment, what does Olowofela bring to the team and is this enough to mitigate being a liability in defence and in every physical contact he's involved in? Not what he might bring in the future, but what he brings right now.

A 22 year old winger who doesn't score tries, lacks any kind of physicality and is a liability in defence. That's why he's further away from the England squad now than he was 2 years ago.
So why hasn’t he been released

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by RagingBull » Tue May 26, 2020 7:40 pm

I mean Olowofela is clearly beating defenders, despite his "lack of physicality".

I personally don't think attack wise we have put him (Or Holmes this season who we know is a try scoring machine and a excellent attack lets not act like he was signed and picked for his defensive) in positions to really score.

The Veainu try v Bristol was a very good of what Olowofela seems to thrive with in terms of line running from the left wing on the shoulder of the 13.
The Veainu certain try v Gloucester was another, in fact I think that game showcases a lot of his positives, He burned through Billy and Thorley
https://www.premiershiprugby.com/watch/ ... ip-round-3 @the 32 minute mark (For those who are bored).

Don't get me wrong I understand that he's not Varndell but at the same time people saying he offers nothing being on the other end of the extreme.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by sam16111986 » Tue May 26, 2020 8:25 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:40 pm
I mean Olowofela is clearly beating defenders, despite his "lack of physicality".

I personally don't think attack wise we have put him (Or Holmes this season who we know is a try scoring machine and a excellent attack lets not act like he was signed and picked for his defensive) in positions to really score.

The Veainu try v Bristol was a very good of what Olowofela seems to thrive with in terms of line running from the left wing on the shoulder of the 13.
The Veainu certain try v Gloucester was another, in fact I think that game showcases a lot of his positives, He burned through Billy and Thorley
https://www.premiershiprugby.com/watch/ ... ip-round-3 @the 32 minute mark (For those who are bored).

Don't get me wrong I understand that he's not Varndell but at the same time people saying he offers nothing being on the other end of the extreme.
Owolfela was excellent in that game. His reading of the game was getting better before injuries seemed to hamper his season. I'm hoping our new attack coach is going to start using our wingers more imaginatively. The likes of Owolfela really work better when coming off the wing looking for work.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Tue May 26, 2020 8:29 pm

Long term he looks like 13 will be his position, he can pick a line & has gas, he may well work well with Nadolo by being there to pick up the offload or exploit the gaps.
Is he the finished article, no, is he a better than average prospect yes.
His next 12 months will give everyone an idea of if he will step up further.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by Cardiff Tig » Wed May 27, 2020 9:20 am

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:29 pm
Long term he looks like 13 will be his position, he can pick a line & has gas, he may well work well with Nadolo by being there to pick up the offload or exploit the gaps.
Is he the finished article, no, is he a better than average prospect yes.
His next 12 months will give everyone an idea of if he will step up further.
The problem is you can't get away with that many missed tackles at 13. Unless he improves his tackling before next season then he won't be given the luxury of developing as a 13 - it would be suicide for the team.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by Cardiff Tig » Wed May 27, 2020 9:24 am

Tiglon wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:04 pm
This whole "does Olowofela score enough tries" thing, I think, came from my comment that if he's going to get away with having such poor defence and physicality, he needs to be a Varndell type player who scores loads of tries.

So Holmes hasn't scored many tries other than in a couple of matches? True, but he is solid under the high ball, kicks well and defends well - he still contributes to the team even when he's not scoring. If Olowofela isn't scoring tries, what is he bringing to the team? Nothing. That is the point that so many of you seem to be missing.

So tell me, at the moment, what does Olowofela bring to the team and is this enough to mitigate being a liability in defence and in every physical contact he's involved in? Not what he might bring in the future, but what he brings right now.

A 22 year old winger who doesn't score tries, lacks any kind of physicality and is a liability in defence. That's why he's further away from the England squad now than he was 2 years ago.
I do think it shows that Holmes isn't the massive loss that some people on here were claiming when it was announced he was leaving. He's a good player, but really just a solid club player of the sort that you would hope a few of the youngsters will develop into. He was only interesting to Wales when they had injuries. I'll be amazed if he's involved in this WC cycle.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by Cagey Tiger » Wed May 27, 2020 9:51 am

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:20 am
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:29 pm
Long term he looks like 13 will be his position, he can pick a line & has gas, he may well work well with Nadolo by being there to pick up the offload or exploit the gaps.
Is he the finished article, no, is he a better than average prospect yes.
His next 12 months will give everyone an idea of if he will step up further.
The problem is you can't get away with that many missed tackles at 13. Unless he improves his tackling before next season then he won't be given the luxury of developing as a 13 - it would be suicide for the team.
You're missing out the where and when that wing and 13 need to make tackles. For example, often the winger is the last defender, often in a 1 on 1, (or more than 1 on 1 given Tigers defence the last 2 seasons), sometimes with the touch line close by, sometimes not. At 13, you will often have a winger on your outside, who will get blamed if you both miss.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by DingDong » Wed May 27, 2020 10:07 am

Mark62 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 5:21 pm
So I hope all these posters that are bringing up these stats, won’t be the same ones that are complaining that we haven’t given a young player a chance, when he moves to another club.
Given a chance? Olowofela has had 39 appearances so far, and if that isn't given someone a chance then what is???

Ask any academy grad what they would wish for and they'll tell you just an opportunity ie a run of back-to-back games during a season, 39 games is nearly 2 seasons!

BTW scoring 6 tries in 39 appearances, who'd sign him for a starting place in the Premiership? IMO he needs to make way for a more effective winger and develop more from the bench and in Prem Cup games.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

Post by johnthegriff » Wed May 27, 2020 10:47 am

If tries are the criteria by which a player is judged have a look at Pat Howards record, one of our greatest players but not many tries. Jordan has I believe started 16 Premiership games not all on the wing, his try scoring record is not great but would be better had poor decisions by the officials not denied him. He is a young player who possibly lacks confidence, that will come with experience. It is a shame that some supporters are not prepared to give a young player time to grow into his role.

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