LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD

[RagingBull]

Lewis and Reffell IMO could be a excellent 6 and 7 combo.
Put in a 8 similar to say a Corry (Which IMO Thom Smith is like) and it could work out like Croft, Moody and Corry did

Reffell isn't the biggest but he is always the top two tacklers in out squad.
His stats for this season
Made 129 tackles
Missed 3
Which puts him at a 98% tackle rate basically.

Agreed but any back rows job is always made that bit easier behind a dominant front 5

One question RB just looking at Smiths stats is he big enough to play 8 at premiership level, or is he more of a Sam Simmonds type 8

IMO yes he will be big enough.
He’s bigger than Thompson when I’ve seen them near each other.

[Mark62]

Lewis and Reffell IMO could be a excellent 6 and 7 combo.
Put in a 8 similar to say a Corry (Which IMO Thom Smith is like) and it could work out like Croft, Moody and Corry did

Reffell isn't the biggest but he is always the top two tacklers in out squad.
His stats for this season
Made 129 tackles
Missed 3
Which puts him at a 98% tackle rate basically.

Agreed but any back rows job is always made that bit easier behind a dominant front 5

One question RB just looking at Smiths stats is he big enough to play 8 at premiership level, or is he more of a Sam Simmonds type 8

IMO yes he will be big enough.
He’s bigger than Thompson when I’ve seen them near each other.

Stats have him at 6ft 1 and 16 stone 3, though I appreciate these can be sometimes inaccurate

[Tiglon]

Lewis and Reffell IMO could be a excellent 6 and 7 combo.
Put in a 8 similar to say a Corry (Which IMO Thom Smith is like) and it could work out like Croft, Moody and Corry did

Reffell isn't the biggest but he is always the top two tacklers in out squad.
His stats for this season
Made 129 tackles
Missed 3
Which puts him at a 98% tackle rate basically.

Moody was unique, and the game has changed a lot so comparisons with that back row are largely irrelevant. We can find all the height and weight stats on the internet that we like, but they don't mean anything. According to the internet, May and Olowofela are the same height and weight, yet on the rugby pitch one looks like a professional rugby player whereas, at times, the other looks like a shcoolboy. I would caution against thinking that Lewis is physically ready just because the internet says he weighs the same as Tom Croft.

Power in the back row is critical these days, so Lewis and Reffell need to be bigger if they are to form a potent partnership that will trouble the playoffs. I really hope they do become as good as Croft and Moody, but they don't look like they are there yet.

[RagingBull]

I'm judging Lewis off the times I have seen him play not his weight or height same with Reffell.
Lewis v Quins looked extremely impressive in defence IMO, especially with the covering defence.
In that game he made 14 tackles missed 0, 1 a try saver.
Add that in with his obvious attack game and lineout ability I don't see why he shouldn't be looked at.

People aren't comparing him to Prime age Croft but Croft coming up who had the same question marks over his size when he first started.

Also Lewis Moody was more a modern day 7 at the time (Bar the cards) than most sevens during it so fail to see how it's irrelevant.

[ABClub]

Reffell doesn't need to get any bigger. From seeing them both play I'd say he's a very similar size to Tom Curry. With regards to online stats Curry is a good example. Wikipedia lists him as 110kg, whilst the RFU website has him as 99kg. For perspective Reffell is listed at 98kg by the Tigers website.

Cam Jordan is listed as heavier than Hanro Liebenberg by the club website. I think most of us who have seen them in person would dispute that.

Lewis being taller will fill out more naturally I'd expect. From personal experience of trying to put on weight whilst lanky it came a lot later than my shorter teammates!

With both it's a case of their impact rather than their weight. As always it's a case of balance as well. If we can pair Lewis and Reffell with Taufua at 8 and a lock partnership such as Lavanini and Alemanno then they are plenty big enough for Prem rugby. Balance across the pack.

[Mark62]

Balance is key in all areas of a side, but more important in the back row than others imo

There is a reason Hill, Back and Dayglo were so good, their skills complemented each other

[Scott1]

Balance is key in all areas of a side, but more important in the back row than others imo

There is a reason Hill, Back and Dayglo were so good, their skills complemented each other

Yes same as the greatest back row ever Kaino,McCaw and Read. You can see what imbalance does when you look at the Ozzie back row with Poopercock

[Tiglon]

I'm judging Lewis off the times I have seen him play not his weight or height same with Reffell.
Lewis v Quins looked extremely impressive in defence IMO, especially with the covering defence.
In that game he made 14 tackles missed 0, 1 a try saver.
Add that in with his obvious attack game and lineout ability I don't see why he shouldn't be looked at.

People aren't comparing him to Prime age Croft but Croft coming up who had the same question marks over his size when he first started.

Also Lewis Moody was more a modern day 7 at the time (Bar the cards) than most sevens during it so fail to see how it's irrelevant.

I'm definitely not saying either of these guys shouldn't be looked at. They should be looked at very closely and I'm looking forward to seeing them develop.

My point is that I'm not going to get as carried away as most other people seem to until I see them putting in consistently good performances in the Premiership. At the moment, I would be happier to see them each get their chances alongside two of Brink, Taufua and Liebenberg.

Tackling stats are lovely, but the modern game is all about dominating the tackle and the breakdown, not just avoiding a missed tackle.

If we want to compare a potential back row, it should be against the best back row units in the Premiership or across Europe right now, not one from ten years ago.

[RagingBull]

Can't get consistently good performances in the Premiership, if you don't get consistently played.
I don't think anyone is saying that they should be the main back row either currently?

[ABClub]

Balance is key in all areas of a side, but more important in the back row than others imo

There is a reason Hill, Back and Dayglo were so good, their skills complemented each other

Yes same as the greatest back row ever Kaino,McCaw and Read. You can see what imbalance does when you look at the Ozzie back row with Poopercock

Hooper and Pocock were exceptional around 2015 to be fair with Fardy partnering them at 6 and playing an attacking game that relied on being able to play of 9, 10, 12 and 15 rather than big ball carriers. In their heyday that back row was an excellent example of unorthodox partnerships working with the right balance and game plan.

By 2019 injuries had caught up with Pocock, Fardy hadn't been replaced and Hooper looked exhausted at the RWC after playing a lot of rugby.

[Scott1]

Balance is key in all areas of a side, but more important in the back row than others imo

There is a reason Hill, Back and Dayglo were so good, their skills complemented each other

Yes same as the greatest back row ever Kaino,McCaw and Read. You can see what imbalance does when you look at the Ozzie back row with Poopercock

Hooper and Pocock were exceptional around 2015 to be fair with Fardy partnering them at 6 and playing an attacking game that relied on being able to play of 9, 10, 12 and 15 rather than big ball carriers. In their heyday that back row was an excellent example of unorthodox partnerships working with the right balance and game plan.

By 2019 injuries had caught up with Pocock, Fardy hadn't been replaced and Hooper looked exhausted at the RWC after playing a lot of rugby.

Youre right it did work with Fardy,top player. Thanks!

[ABClub]

My point is that I'm not going to get as carried away as most other people seem to until I see them putting in consistently good performances in the Premiership. At the moment, I would be happier to see them each get their chances alongside two of Brink, Taufua and Liebenberg.

I think that's what a lot of us have been wanting for a few seasons now. The youngsters being worked into experienced XVs alongside the internationals to give them the best shot at succeeding. It has started happening more in the last 18 months or so which is great to see. Heyes, Lewis, Reffell, White, Hardwick and Olowofela have had game time alongside our top players which will help them immensely in the long run.

1.Genge 2.Mamukashvili 3.Heyes 4.Lavanini 5.Green 6.Liebenberg 7.Reffell 8.Taufua
9.White 10.Ford 11.Nadolo 12.Scott 13.Tuilagi 14.Veainu 15.Steward

16.Kerr 17.Leatigaga 18.Cole 19.Lewis 20.Brink 21.Youngs 22.Hardwick 23.Olowofela

Something like that is a perfect example of the type of mix I hope to see. Heyes alongside an international loosehead and hooker. Reffell with a top class 6 and 8. White partnering Ford. Steward with Veainu and Nadolo. Experience on the bench in Cole and Youngs. Physical impact from Leatiagaga and Brink. Talented youngsters in Kerr, Lewis, Hardwick and Olowofela.

We still need good recruitment at lock, back row and back three to allow that rotation but I'm feeling more hopeful.

[JP14]

I last saw Them Smith play in the flesh 2 years ago in the preseason fixture against Cardiff, he wasn't big enough then but a lot can happen in 2 years and for the moment trust RB's instincts that he could be the next Corry.

[JP14]

I also think Moody would still have been as world class as he was 15 years ago, just would have got carded more.

[RagingBull]

IDK if I would say Smith could be the next Corry just yet but his play style is very similar to his in terms of 8.
He needs to fill out more upper body wise but he does look at have quite a powerful led drive.
He’s only just turned 20 in December so again still has time to put on that mass.