Richard Blaze

[BFG]

All good coaches have come and gone although some will disagree on MOC, shocked at the level of repair job required IMO.
Academy lost proper direction and with the annual senior bargain hunting player merry go round Leicester have had all the solidity of a wet rich tea biscuit.
Coaches left mopping up the mess.

[kk20gb30]

..... I'm also of the mind though that this GM/SB dynamic will work too.

let Geordan talk the talk ; let Borthwick impart to us some hard nosed pragmatism in regard to what winning is all about.

[Traveller]

He can’t be any good as a coach cause if you start coaching at Tigers straight from playing you are an unmitigated disaster and don’t deserve the air you breathe down oval park.

Unless you are Cockers or Deano of course, that worked.

But literally no-one else

Oh apart from Pat Howard, John Wells and Boris and a few others.

But literally no one else.

(Do we like Brett Deacon yet - I can’t decide so let me know)

Anyway It’s an old boys club forever.

I rate Brett Deacon. He is "a world class coach". I know that because Geordan Murphy used those exact words to describe him as such when he was appointed. Not, he has the 'potential' to become a world class coach (whatever that means), but that he was already. In my opinion, that sort of hyperbole is unhelpful for a young inexperienced coach and only demonstrated Murphy's own lack of experience and competence in the role of HC.

However the coaching team really does seem to be taking shape with Borthwick's arrival and GMs change of role, and as important as anyone, McGinty. Since so many players have said that GM was an influence on them for staying (Genge, Ford, Youngs), coming (Lavannini, Taufua, Nadolo) it would be churlish to argue that GMs influence has been wholly negative. That said, I wonder what the tone of this forum would be like if Saracens hadn't been relegated and the season hadn't been curtailed.

[johnthegriff]

What constitutes an experienced coach? Deano took over as D.O.R with no experience in the role. Pat Howard came in as backs coach and within a season was appointed Head Coach with Cocker as forwards coach, four or five years later as a temporary measure in dire circumstances Cocker took charge, immediate success meant he was confirmed in the position seven years later with multiple trophies under his leadership some people were still saying he was too inexperienced for the role Richard Blaze has been coaching foe about seven years, Brett Deacon, Geordan Murphy, Boris Stankovitch and Steve Borthwick for about five years now, yes they are still learning but probably so is Eddie Jones.
People often refer to Murphy having difficulties being the boss of his former playing mates, very few of the team played at the same time as Murph and even then they would have been junior members of the squad whilst he was by then a veteran.
Being a successful coach is not about time in a job it is about acquiring knowledge and using it. The best coaches always seem to have the best players, that can be luck maintaining that success as players change is about the quality of the coaching and recruitment team. Conversely a lack of success in the short term may be down to the position inherited, two full rounds of contract change should be enough to establish the quality and experience of the coaching set up.

[JP14]

To back up JohntheGriff’s point of the 2018/19 & 2019/20 squads that Murphy has been in charge, these are the only players he was teammates with as far as I know:

• Dan Cole

• George Ford

• Sam Harrison

• Matt Smith

• Adam Thompstone

• Manu Tuilagi

• Ben Youngs

• Tom Youngs

8 players out of last year’s squad in total, I guess the only telling factor is that the likes of the Youngs brother have been attributed to running a player cartel within the squad but the fact remains that Murphy shouldn’t struggle from coaching former teammates.

[ourla]

It not as simple as people being a great coach or not. There are a lot of factors involved in a team and ergo coach being successful.

[kk20gb30]

Perhaps we should also note that it is far easier to 'coach' or begin to 'coach' with in the confines of a winning team rather that that of a struggling or declining team.Also , I believe the test of any successful coach is based upon longevity - even the best however reach their sell by date sooner or later.

[Mark62]

Watching that 2001 champions cup highlights, I haven’t got round to the Munster game yet a fair number went onto coach at a high level.

Wiggy
West
Johnson
Back
Howard
Murphy
Jamie Hamilton
Gustard
Cockers

Some went on do well as summarisers Goode, Healey, Kay.

[Chobbsy]

Former Leicester forwards coach takes up similar role with Wasps as part of Lee Blackett's new backroom staff

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52227971.

Ah so he is moving from England ladies

[RichieB]

Former Leicester forwards coach takes up similar role with Wasps as part of Lee Blackett's new backroom staff

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52227971.

Ah so he is moving from England ladies

I think he was forwards coach for the Red Roses.

On the matter of Murphy and players buying in to his 'vision', if that is the case then well done to him for keeping the likes of Ford and Genge. Whether it is true or not, I for one will probably never know. How much is down to the PR machine telling the players what to say and controlling press releases in order to give Murphy some kudos, I probably won't find out either! Until someone writes a book....

[Chobbsy]

Former Leicester forwards coach takes up similar role with Wasps as part of Lee Blackett's new backroom staff

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52227971.

Ah so he is moving from England ladies

I think he was forwards coach for the Red Roses.

On the matter of Murphy and players buying in to his 'vision', if that is the case then well done to him for keeping the likes of Ford and Genge. Whether it is true or not, I for one will probably never know. How much is down to the PR machine telling the players what to say and controlling press releases in order to give Murphy some kudos, I probably won't find out either! Until someone writes a book....

yes he was that's why I said so he is leaving England ladies ;)

[DingDong]

...I guess the only telling factor is that the likes of the Youngs brother have been attributed to running a player cartel within the squad...

'cartel'? - sounds a bit of a weird phrase to use, expand on that if you wouldn't mind, with fact and not hearsay.

[voice of the crumbie]

"Telling the players what to say". I'm sure that works well with Ellis Genge

[JP14]

...I guess the only telling factor is that the likes of the Youngs brother have been attributed to running a player cartel within the squad...

'cartel'? - sounds a bit of a weird phrase to use, expand on that if you wouldn't mind, with fact and not hearsay.

Note the word I have highlighted in bold, this is not a direct accusation by myself in this instance. They have been accused in the past of being part of the group that got rid of Cockers wanted to bring back in O'Connor.

[Scott1]

Yes,theres stories about the guys who wanted to keep Cockers getting their own back getting rid of Mauger and MoC back in. Are they true? Who knows? Theres always been player power in every sport though so maybe it is.