Utter Rubbish - Manus Red Card v Wales

[mol2]

The problem is with the current laws which fail to consider that a player can be committed to a tackle at a legal height only to find the player has been tacked, stumbles or simply leans forwards bringing his head into the collision.

If the tackler is committed and there is no time to pull out then it should not be a penalty.

If the player is already down before the tackler is committed then the sanctions must apply.

If the tackle was "illegal" in terms of no arms then sanctions must apply.

Personally I think Manu was committed and had his left arm out (there is no need to wrap with both) and finds himself with a falling player coming at him. No time to pull out so it makes it look clumsy. This also changes the point of contact on North. Had North not been falling as a result of Slade's tackle, he would have been a stride further on and Manu would have been making the tackle from the side/behind North.

The other issue I have is that none of the video angles shown to the TV match official actually showed contact between Manu's arm or shoulder and North's head. Each angle viewed alone make it look like contact was made but when you look at them in "split screen" the time when one angle suggests contact it shows none and at the tme the other angle suggests contact it again shows none. That's my beef with the adjudication - it doesn't show the contact so is based on assumption not clear evidence. It doesn't look good but that's not the point.

[h's dad]

The other issue I have is that none of the video angles shown to the TV match official actually showed contact between Manu's arm or shoulder and North's head. Each angle viewed alone make it look like contact was made but when you look at them in "split screen" the time when one angle suggests contact it shows none and at the tme the other angle suggests contact it again shows none. That's my beef with the adjudication - it doesn't show the contact so is based on assumption not clear evidence. It doesn't look good but that's not the point.

The assault on the tip of George's ear by Manu's hip was clear and brutal.

[Tiglon]

Tackler is responsible for how he tackles.

Tackle to head = red card.

I think it's as simple as that.

[mol2]

Tackler is responsible for how he tackles.

Tackle to head = red card.

I think it's as simple as that.

That’s the problem at the speed of the top level game players are being punished for making what are essentially fair attempts to tackle but penalised because a player falls and contact with the head is made.
No time to change or pull out.

Is that reasonable? Well the game will turn into touch rugby with the odd maul if common sense doesn’t return.

2 or 3 years ago the Manu tackle would not have been a penalty.

[DingDong]

Mol2, you have to either accept concussion is a serious issue and legislate against it, or go back to all in tackling and not worry about the consequences, I prefer the former. The citing committee took into account the initial tackle and the collateral involved, but any mitigation wasn’t relevant because Manu shoulder charged (ie not tackled!) North direct to the head. There is fairness in this finding, but not necessarily in the punishment.

[h's dad]

Tackler is responsible for how he tackles.

Tackle to head = red card.

I think it's as simple as that.

I don't think it is as simple as that:
https://laws.worldrugby.org/en/guidelines

[h's dad]

Mol2, you have to either accept concussion is a serious issue and legislate against it, or go back to all in tackling and not worry about the consequences, I prefer the former. The citing committee took into account the initial tackle and the collateral involved, but any mitigation wasn’t relevant because Manu shoulder charged (ie not tackled!) North direct to the head. There is fairness in this finding, but not necessarily in the punishment.

Please don't accuse any of us about not worrying about concussion and its consequences. Where is the fairness when worse offences of a similar nature were treated more lightly both during and after the match?

[DingDong]

H’sdad, your comment about the ‘tip of George’s ear’ demonstrates your lack of appreciation towards the concussion issue. Parkes tackle on Manu should’ve been a yellow, Marlers punishment disproportionate etc etc, the officials make mistakes, they’re human beings as is Manu who also made a mistake and quite rightly got a red. Players and officials need to be better.

[Tiglon]

Tackler is responsible for how he tackles.

Tackle to head = red card.

I think it's as simple as that.

That’s the problem at the speed of the top level game players are being punished for making what are essentially fair attempts to tackle but penalised because a player falls and contact with the head is made.
No time to change or pull out.

Is that reasonable? Well the game will turn into touch rugby with the odd maul if common sense doesn’t return.

2 or 3 years ago the Manu tackle would not have been a penalty.

You're using extremes to make a point as though they are the only two possibilities. There is a lot of middle ground between touch rugby and allowing a player to shrug his shoulders and say "didn't mean to sir" when he tackles someone in the head.

If a player puts himself in a position where he is out of control and cannot adjust, like Manu did launching himself in the air, then he has to be prepared to take the consequences if it goes wrong. He had no time to pull out because he was already airborne.

Yes there were lots of inconsistencies and I think Parkes should have seen red too, but we have to reach a point where players aren't doing impressions of missiles when attempting tackles or joining the ruck. There are plenty of ways to tackle whilst still retaining control of yourself.

Saying that something was ok in the past isn't a good reason for it being ok now. Otherwise flogging peasants for not working hard enough would still be a popular hobby.

[BigDan50]

Manu needs to change his tackle technique, he has been tackling leading with his shoulder for years, he is always looking for the big hit and in today’s game he will get more yellow/red cards in games if he doesn’t change.
One wonders if Owen Farrell had made the same tackle as Manu, would the posters on here who have defended Manu be as supportive of Farrell as they have of Manu?

[Crofty]

Manu needs to change his tackle technique, he has been tackling leading with his shoulder for years, he is always looking for the big hit and in today’s game he will get more yellow/red cards in games if he doesn’t change.
One wonders if Owen Farrell had made the same tackle as Manu, would the posters on here who have defended Manu be as supportive of Farrell as they have of Manu?

I wonder if Manu hadn't made the tackle and instead just watched North score the try if those hounding him now would have been supportive of him making the sensible choice?

[sam16111986]

Manu needs to change his tackle technique, he has been tackling leading with his shoulder for years, he is always looking for the big hit and in today’s game he will get more yellow/red cards in games if he doesn’t change.
One wonders if Owen Farrell had made the same tackle as Manu, would the posters on here who have defended Manu be as supportive of Farrell as they have of Manu?

I wonder if Manu hadn't made the tackle and instead just watched North score the try if those hounding him now would have been supportive of him making the sensible choice?

Probably, those that are hounding him are the Welsh and Irish journos with nothing to write about. They'd both have loved to see England lose.

[biffer]

Manu needs to change his tackle technique, he has been tackling leading with his shoulder for years, he is always looking for the big hit and in today’s game he will get more yellow/red cards in games if he doesn’t change.
One wonders if Owen Farrell had made the same tackle as Manu, would the posters on here who have defended Manu be as supportive of Farrell as they have of Manu?

I wonder if Manu hadn't made the tackle and instead just watched North score the try if those hounding him now would have been supportive of him making the sensible choice?

Probably, those that are hounding him are the Welsh and Irish journos with nothing to write about. They'd both have loved to see England lose.

Except he didn’t make a tackle, he delivered a hit.

I support England one day a year, when they play Wales. And I want to see Manu playing every week for Leicester. But Manu’s hit was a red. Shoulder to the head, no arms (and very little attempt to use them). It was daft, and we all know he can be daft occasionally. But no more than that. It wasn’t any deliberate attempt to smash someone’s head, but it was careless to the point of reckless. So red card and a ban. Suck it up and stop whining.

[DingDong]

Except he didn’t make a tackle, he delivered a hit.

I support England one day a year, when they play Wales. And I want to see Manu playing every week for Leicester. But Manu’s hit was a red. Shoulder to the head, no arms (and very little attempt to use them). It was daft, and we all know he can be daft occasionally. But no more than that. It wasn’t any deliberate attempt to smash someone’s head, but it was careless to the point of reckless. So red card and a ban. Suck it up and stop whining.

[jgriffin]

You're all missing the big point. Manu tackled a player who should not have been playing having been knocked out at least 4 times. The Wales medics are at fault initially.