Players asked to take pay cuts!

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JP14
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by JP14 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 pm

Falcons have asked their staff to take indefinite unpaid leave.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Traveller
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Traveller » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:53 pm

Old Hob wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:49 am
Brittania Hotels (Pontin's Holiday Camps) dismissed all their staff forthwith but then "generously" took them back under the government 80% pay scheme. They will, however, not add anything themselves to the tax payers' contribution to their staff. Wetherspoons now refuse to pay suppliers until pubs re-open. Branson already mentioned but first to have his hand out for a sub.

And, yes. Rugby players are overpaid. They operate in a weird, distorted market like TV presenters, newspaper columnists and top actors. They are pursuing essentially trivial occupations but are rewarded massively disproportionately. And please don't bring the "It's a short career" argument. That just gives longer for a more normal one. I know there are some on here who appear to worship/ revere people with money , apparently seeing them as morally superior in some way but most are just lucky. In the current state of affairs we can see who the really important people are. Refuse collectors, transport workers, delivery drivers, supermarket workers and people in the emergency services and NHS. There are others. Nobody ever said, "It's a crisis. Is there a rugby player/actor/ restaurant critic in the house?"
I disagree. The market in which professional rugby players operate is not distorted. They operate in the entertainment industry. Human have always taken great pleasure from the arts, drama, writing, sport at the elite level. The Greeks had a word for it – arete - excellence in personal fulfilment. They give us something that we don’t find in the normality of our daily lives. It’s why we have museums, art galleries, concert halls.

It is us, who determine whether these people are paid as they are through our BT and Sky subscriptions, ticket purchases, willingness to purchase club scarfs and shirts.

None of which is to say that refuse collectors, nurses etc shouldn’t be paid more. No doubt lots of those same people doing wonderful work today to keep the country going and to save lives, are also supporters of sports teams, have Sky subscriptions and are looking forward to the moment when they can get back to cheering them on etc.

I don’t think it is helpful to elevate one group of people by demeaning the others.

I would vote for a government that raised taxes to enhance the lot of the people you describe. But it would mean all of us paying more, not just the other person.

Mark62
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Mark62 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:29 pm

JP14 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 pm
Falcons have asked their staff to take indefinite unpaid leave.
Maybe it was Falcons, they both fly right :smt023

BFG
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by BFG » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:52 pm

Old Hob wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:49 am
Brittania Hotels (Pontin's Holiday Camps) dismissed all their staff forthwith but then "generously" took them back under the government 80% pay scheme. They will, however, not add anything themselves to the tax payers' contribution to their staff. Wetherspoons now refuse to pay suppliers until pubs re-open. Branson already mentioned but first to have his hand out for a sub.

And, yes. Rugby players are overpaid. They operate in a weird, distorted market like TV presenters, newspaper columnists and top actors. They are pursuing essentially trivial occupations but are rewarded massively disproportionately. And please don't bring the "It's a short career" argument. That just gives longer for a more normal one. I know there are some on here who appear to worship/ revere people with money , apparently seeing them as morally superior in some way but most are just lucky. In the current state of affairs we can see who the really important people are. Refuse collectors, transport workers, delivery drivers, supermarket workers and people in the emergency services and NHS. There are others. Nobody ever said, "It's a crisis. Is there a rugby player/actor/ restaurant critic in the house?"
I do agree on many of the points that you raise and pro players are rewarded disproportionately in a financial sense but at the same time it doesn't diminish from their entertainment value to me.
The movie John Carter is a good example as a comparison to me because I enjoyed watching it, but it reportedly cost $263 million to make and lost $122 million, but I thought that it was still an entertaining film.
I'm sure others would similarly value what their individual tastes value.
Sadly though there are far more important things to consider than entertainment presently.
As long as everyone has enough to survive then they should be content with that in my opinion.

Mark62
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Mark62 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:56 pm

BFG wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:52 pm
Old Hob wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:49 am
Brittania Hotels (Pontin's Holiday Camps) dismissed all their staff forthwith but then "generously" took them back under the government 80% pay scheme. They will, however, not add anything themselves to the tax payers' contribution to their staff. Wetherspoons now refuse to pay suppliers until pubs re-open. Branson already mentioned but first to have his hand out for a sub.

And, yes. Rugby players are overpaid. They operate in a weird, distorted market like TV presenters, newspaper columnists and top actors. They are pursuing essentially trivial occupations but are rewarded massively disproportionately. And please don't bring the "It's a short career" argument. That just gives longer for a more normal one. I know there are some on here who appear to worship/ revere people with money , apparently seeing them as morally superior in some way but most are just lucky. In the current state of affairs we can see who the really important people are. Refuse collectors, transport workers, delivery drivers, supermarket workers and people in the emergency services and NHS. There are others. Nobody ever said, "It's a crisis. Is there a rugby player/actor/ restaurant critic in the house?"
I do agree on many of the points that you raise and pro players are rewarded disproportionately in a financial sense but at the same time it doesn't diminish from their entertainment value to me.
The movie John Carter is a good example as a comparison to me because I enjoyed watching it, but it reportedly cost $263 million to make and lost $122 million, but I thought that it was still an entertaining film.
I'm sure others would similarly value what their individual tastes value.
Sadly though there are far more important things to consider than entertainment presently.
As long as everyone has enough to survive then they should be content with that in my opinion.
Agreed hope everyone is clapping and cheering at 8 tonight

loretta
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by loretta » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:01 pm

I find your lack of faith......disturbing.

LE18
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by LE18 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:07 pm

Has LD'L taken a cut from his TV job? He will have less to spend! What about BK and AH?

Mark62
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Mark62 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:43 pm

LE18 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:07 pm
Has LD'L taken a cut from his TV job? He will have less to spend! What about BK and AH?
Pretty sure they are all going to be self employed as they work for various companies, so as with all self employed at the current time no work no pay

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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by h's dad » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:08 pm

Traveller wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:53 pm
Old Hob wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:49 am
Brittania Hotels (Pontin's Holiday Camps) dismissed all their staff forthwith but then "generously" took them back under the government 80% pay scheme. They will, however, not add anything themselves to the tax payers' contribution to their staff. Wetherspoons now refuse to pay suppliers until pubs re-open. Branson already mentioned but first to have his hand out for a sub.

And, yes. Rugby players are overpaid. They operate in a weird, distorted market like TV presenters, newspaper columnists and top actors. They are pursuing essentially trivial occupations but are rewarded massively disproportionately. And please don't bring the "It's a short career" argument. That just gives longer for a more normal one. I know there are some on here who appear to worship/ revere people with money , apparently seeing them as morally superior in some way but most are just lucky. In the current state of affairs we can see who the really important people are. Refuse collectors, transport workers, delivery drivers, supermarket workers and people in the emergency services and NHS. There are others. Nobody ever said, "It's a crisis. Is there a rugby player/actor/ restaurant critic in the house?"
I disagree. The market in which professional rugby players operate is not distorted. They operate in the entertainment industry. Human have always taken great pleasure from the arts, drama, writing, sport at the elite level. The Greeks had a word for it – arete - excellence in personal fulfilment. They give us something that we don’t find in the normality of our daily lives. It’s why we have museums, art galleries, concert halls.

It is us, who determine whether these people are paid as they are through our BT and Sky subscriptions, ticket purchases, willingness to purchase club scarfs and shirts.

None of which is to say that refuse collectors, nurses etc shouldn’t be paid more. No doubt lots of those same people doing wonderful work today to keep the country going and to save lives, are also supporters of sports teams, have Sky subscriptions and are looking forward to the moment when they can get back to cheering them on etc.

I don’t think it is helpful to elevate one group of people by demeaning the others.

I would vote for a government that raised taxes to enhance the lot of the people you describe. But it would mean all of us paying more, not just the other person.
Put so much better than I was going to.

I'm narcissistic enough to think "I know there are some on here who appear to worship/ revere people with money , apparently seeing them as morally superior in some way" included me in its catchment. If I wanted to worship people with money I certainly wouldn't be looking at rugby players and while I am honest enough to admit I have many moral superiors I really don't think that the proportion of rugby players is greater than the norm.

I'm sure the detractors of rugby salaries on here generally aren't really petty green eyed curmudgeons, just a little detached from the real world and probably proud of it.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

kk20gb30
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by kk20gb30 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:17 am

Mark62 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:29 pm
JP14 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 pm
Falcons have asked their staff to take indefinite unpaid leave.
Maybe it was Falcons, they both fly right :smt023
very interesting this , as Newcastle was mooted as a possible new home for Johnny May , with the club supposedly prepared to outbid all Premiership rivals....

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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by BFG » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:33 am

kk20gb30 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:17 am
Mark62 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:29 pm
JP14 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 pm
Falcons have asked their staff to take indefinite unpaid leave.
Maybe it was Falcons, they both fly right :smt023
very interesting this , as Newcastle was mooted as a possible new home for Johnny May , with the club supposedly prepared to outbid all Premiership rivals....
What is also interesting is that it could potentially support the view of an unsustainable model and severely devalue the current league standings in Ealing's favour.

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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by johnthegriff » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:55 am

Interesting situation for some, their contract ends at the end of this season, say June in normal times. Signing for a new club with a contract to commence July 1st ready for pre season is seamless but currently I wouldn't think teams are signing new players with a start date when we have no idea when we shall be playing again . If I were a player in that situation and my existing employer had an offer on the table I would take it. I have sympathy for guys who have no offer as they are going to be out of work at least until normality returns.

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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by MurphysLaw » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:02 am

[quote=JP14 post_id=739052 time=1585228899 user_id=12219]
Falcons have asked their staff to take indefinite unpaid leave.
[/quote]

It is reported that they are looking to the Government's 'furloughing scheme'. The Government will be paying up to 80% of their wages, up to £2500 pcm. So, the first team Union squad will likely be taking a fairly sizeable cut, but I am not sure how much their Development and Academy players will be on. Likewise the Newcastle Thunder players?

I wonder if any other clubs are proposing to 'furlough' their junior players and lower paid staff?

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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by fleabane » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:41 pm

From today’s Guardian:


Premiership players have been given legal advice on how to challenge the blanket 25% pay cuts imposed by the clubs as domestic rugby’s row over wage reductions intensified on Thursday.

In the Championship, Newcastle Falcons have been plunged into turmoil with their players expected to reject their proposed swingeing pay cuts. In the Premiership the Guardian also understands the entire Leicester Tigers squad is strongly considering rejecting the 25% reduction after the Rugby Players’ Association provided legal guidance to its 700+ members.

Newcastle, currently top of the Championship but still unsure if they will be promoted next season, on Thursday asked all their players and staff to agree to be put on furlough – unpaid leave save for the £2,500 a month available as part of the government’s bailout – and a deadline of midday on Friday to respond.

It is understood the squad was then offered wage top-ups meaning those earning over £75,000 a year would receive 50% of their wages while those on £37,500 to £75,000 would get the equivalent of £37,500. It is believed that without further improvements it will be rejected however, potentially leaving the Falcons in considerable financial strife after the RFU announced last week that all of this season’s competitions below the Premiership would be cancelled due to the coronavirus pandemic.

In a letter sent by the Newcastle director of rugby, Dean Richards, and seen by the Guardian, staff are told they are expected to agree to the measures and warned that redundancies may be necessary if they do not.

In the Premiership meanwhile, an increasing number of players are set to challenge the 25% cuts imposed across the league. As reported by the Guardian, there is growing unrest, particularly among players whose contracts expire over the summer, and a sense of dismay that individual circumstances and varying salaries were not being taken into account.

In a letter seen by the Guardian, the RPA has provided players with guidance on how to “reserve your position” in order to strengthen future claims for unlawful deduction of wages if pay is withheld. The RPA also acknowledges that some clubs have “simply told players the cut is happening” rather than undertaking a consultation process and it is believed that, now armed with legal guidance, an increasing number of players will not accept the 25% reduction.

Premiership could play midweek games and cut break to finish season

The RPA’s lawyers advise the union’s members who do not want to accept the reduction to write to their clubs, informing them that the imposed cuts are “ a breach of contract and I reserve my rights in full to claim my full contractual entitlements. I will continue to honour my playing contract duties and will make a decision in due course, when I have sufficient information to allow me to make an informed decision.

“My continued performance of my playing contract longer term should not be considered to amount to any implied acceptance of any reduction in my pay, and I reserve my rights to claim my entitlements that I initially accepted under my contract if this proves necessary.”

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The guidance goes on to add that “regardless of this approach, the club will most likely go ahead and still apply a pay reduction but you will have reserved your right to claim your contractual entitlements at a later date should you wish.”

Meanwhile, Eddie Jones has agreed a pay cut in excess of 25% to his £750,000 salary, after the RFU chief executive, Bill Sweeney, revealed he and the rest of the union’s five-strong executive team would be doing so.

Jones, who is currently in Japan, immediately agreed to the cut – which amounts to more than £187,500 a year – with the RFU estimating it will lose up to £50m in the next 18 months. “Eddie is overseas at present and when I contacted him regarding our executive pay reduction proposals he immediately agreed,” said Sweeney.
Valhalla I am coming!

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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Not a jock » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:01 pm

So the players don't agree to the cuts, the clubs will be bankrupt sooner rather than later and be in administration. The players will be in the queue of creditors. Found this order of creidtors to be paid, online:

"First in line for the payment are the liquidator and the costs of his services.
Then there are the creditors who had been granted security – like banks, lenders and finance providers. These are called the Secured Creditors.
Only after the secured creditors have been paid, the company employees claims can get in line for the payout, and those are still subject to the limits that the government has set in place.
After the company employees have been paid, next in line for the payout are unsecured creditors like suppliers, landlords, contractors, clients that are due for a refund, and taxmen.
The last in payout order of priority are the shareholders. "

So the players won't be top of the list.

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