Players asked to take pay cuts!

[Ian Cant]

H’s dad put:

Take the payments off the players and you'll have Martin Johnson outside your door with a placard and a brazier.

Only this week Martin Johnson talked about some of the positives to come out of the current situation. He talked at length about how, when Tigers were winning trophies regularly he and the rest of the successful squads couldn’t believe rather amount some players were earning elsewhere but then some of those clubs really struggled financially. He thought that in future clubs will have to adopt a far more sensible approach with regard to how much players are paid.
The only club I can see having no problems is Bristol as their owner is, I believe a billionaire.
This is why the vast majority of clubs want to see the salary cap remain sensible.

[Tiglon]

To say there was no money in rugby in the 80s is incorrect. There may have been no visible money, and there were certainly incentives for top players to move clubs provided by friendly local employers

But....

Post by Mark62 » Sat May 23, 2020 2:37 pm

IMO Loyalty these days is very much an outdated concept., certainly in terms of suppliers and consumers.
The days of sticking with your energy supplier, mortgage lender, insurance company etc are long gone, we all look for the best deal available. Same with supermarkets, especially since their loyalty schemes were proven to be little more than data mining schemes.
I think there is a similar attitude to sports teams. I stopped playing in 1989 through injury, but had I continued I would have stayed at the same club, Stoneygate until I stopped playing. In those days, outside of football, it was unheard of for players to change clubs, unless there were geographic reasons.
Now at all levels players move around clubs, Mays reason was financially motivated, I have no doubt he is 100% committed to whichever club is paying him, but when his contract is up at Gloucester he will look for the best deal.
That’s modern life I’m afraid and loyalty these days usually starts with a £

So which is it? Did players move for money in the 80's like they do now, or did they all turn down financial gain in the name of loyalty?

[Mark62]

To say there was no money in rugby in the 80s is incorrect. There may have been no visible money, and there were certainly incentives for top players to move clubs provided by friendly local employers

But....

Post by Mark62 » Sat May 23, 2020 2:37 pm

IMO Loyalty these days is very much an outdated concept., certainly in terms of suppliers and consumers.
The days of sticking with your energy supplier, mortgage lender, insurance company etc are long gone, we all look for the best deal available. Same with supermarkets, especially since their loyalty schemes were proven to be little more than data mining schemes.
I think there is a similar attitude to sports teams. I stopped playing in 1989 through injury, but had I continued I would have stayed at the same club, Stoneygate until I stopped playing. In those days, outside of football, it was unheard of for players to change clubs, unless there were geographic reasons.
Now at all levels players move around clubs, Mays reason was financially motivated, I have no doubt he is 100% committed to whichever club is paying him, but when his contract is up at Gloucester he will look for the best deal.
That’s modern life I’m afraid and loyalty these days usually starts with a £

So which is it? Did players move for money in the 80's like they do now, or did they all turn down financial gain in the name of loyalty?

Quite right, the point I was making was to do with the lower reaches of the game. There was money in the game in the 80s and movement by players at the higher echelons was made easier by friendly supporting firms. I can’t remember the name of the company but there was an insurance brokers around the Demontfort Street area of Leicester who had about 5 members of the playing squad on their books, now either they had a really company 7s side or there was another reason

[BigDan50]

Back in the day my wife worked in a well known bank with one of our more famous captain/players, he was employed by the bank but was never seen to work in the bank even though paid a full salary, rumour has it that he was also on the ground staff at Welford Road and also paid a salary by the club.
At that time we were the best supported club with the largest income and we were able to recruit the best players to come and play for us which in turn made us the most successful club in that era.
No salary caps then!!!

[h's dad]

H’s dad put:

Take the payments off the players and you'll have Martin Johnson outside your door with a placard and a brazier.

Only this week Martin Johnson talked about some of the positives to come out of the current situation. He talked at length about how, when Tigers were winning trophies regularly he and the rest of the successful squads couldn’t believe rather amount some players were earning elsewhere but then some of those clubs really struggled financially. He thought that in future clubs will have to adopt a far more sensible approach with regard to how much players are paid.
The only club I can see having no problems is Bristol as their owner is, I believe a billionaire.
This is why the vast majority of clubs want to see the salary cap remain sensible.

With respect Ian, the point I was making was specifically in response to a suggestion to take payment for international performances away from players. I am sure that you will recall, probably better than I, when MJ was a leader of the group suggesting immediate strike action if remuneration for international performances was not significantly enhanced.

[h's dad]

Back in the day my wife worked in a well known bank with one of our more famous captain/players, he was employed by the bank but was never seen to work in the bank even though paid a full salary, rumour has it that he was also on the ground staff at Welford Road and also paid a salary by the club.
At that time we were the best supported club with the largest income and we were able to recruit the best players to come and play for us which in turn made us the most successful club in that era.
No salary caps then!!!

Assuming we're talking about the same 'one of our more famous captain/players' my sister-in-law trained him on the cashiers' desk. She said it was a bit of a squeeze. Whether he ever actually did any independent work, I don't know.

[ourla]

It's flaring up again... this time at a national level...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... d-pay-cuts

England’s leading club players are considering strike action in an increasingly bitter row over the imposition of permanent wage cuts.

The Rugby Players Association chairman, Mark Lambert, said clubs are showing “an absolute disregard” for his members who are being placed under “undue pressure” to sign contracts on reduced terms by Thursday week.

[Tigerbeat]

It's flaring up again... this time at a national level...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... d-pay-cuts

England’s leading club players are considering strike action in an increasingly bitter row over the imposition of permanent wage cuts.

The Rugby Players Association chairman, Mark Lambert, said clubs are showing “an absolute disregard” for his members who are being placed under “undue pressure” to sign contracts on reduced terms by Thursday week.

Times have changed and clubs are really having to tighten the reins on costs and this could put some clubs on the verge of going out of business. Without the Clubs, the players would not have their jobs and survival is the priority at the moment. I have some sympathy for them but there is not the same money in Rugby as there is in football.

[kk20gb30]

The situation simply is what it is in terms of finance at present

[JP14]

It really pains me the substantial loss of perception that people have lost in general during this pandemic.

[mol2]

How much revenue have the clubs lost? (assuming the closed door matches go ahead)

Clubs like Tigers may have lost quite a bit from ticket sales, match day drinks and hospitality (although the latter had already reduced by the look of the gaps in the seats earlier in the season)

[johnthegriff]

Players are not the lifeblood of the game the fan is, most players are around for just a few years and then they move on. The players have the right to take what they can from their employment with a club but that should not be at a level that endangers the survival of the club, nor should it be so low that quality sports talent will think it not worth embarking on a professional career, a balance has to be found.
Strike action is a big step, our clubs are in serious danger of going out of existence, to strike before we are playing again seems pretty pointless and to strike once we are playing will could deny a team its chance of continuing to exist. The current situation is difficult enough, those tasked with resolving the problems must do so, compromise must be sought where possible.

[BFG]

I think players need to consider that the game was already starting to struggle before Covid-19 arrived.
The game needs to reset.
To be honest rugby was fast becoming a much less appealing slugfest.
The product (rugby) had become bogged down by far too many long stoppages and replacements favouring the average skilled gym monkeys.
It has been mentioned so many times that if the game was played as it was originally meant to be played with fewer replacements and quicker restarts then it makes the game safer and players can have a better quality of life outside of and after rugby.

[strawclearer]

I think players need to consider that the game was already starting to struggle before Covid-19 arrived.
The game needs to reset.
To be honest rugby was fast becoming a much less appealing slugfest.
The product (rugby) had become bogged down by far too many long stoppages and replacements favouring the average skilled gym monkeys.
It has been mentioned so many times that if the game was played as it was originally meant to be played with fewer replacements and quicker restarts then it makes the game safer and players can have a better quality of life outside of and after rugby.

[h's dad]

I am very much in favour of professional sportspeople being professionally compensated but you can't get a quart out of a pint pot, at least not on a sustainable basis.