Players asked to take pay cuts!

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Traveller
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Traveller » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:55 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:49 am
BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:10 am
Mark62 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:02 am

You are Jeremy Corbyn and I claim my £10
It's really not difficult Mark.
Life is more precious than money.
You are aware that not every business has a lot of money in the bank, aren't you? Particularly the hospitality businesses that are suffering at the moment.

Even many "wealthy" people don't have a lot of cash in the bank.

Let's take the Wetherspoons example. Published £58m profits recently. Pre tax. So let's say £45m after tax - ok, tax payments have been delayed, but they still need to be paid at some point. 43,000 employees - maybe an average of £1000 per month each, just a wild guess. That's £43m gone this month. So even if all that profit is sat in the bank, it will barely cover the first month. Then there are the suppliers that are owed money and a whole host of other costs. Bearing that in mind, and the fact that these businesses are likely to be closed for 3 months, why is it unreasonable that Wetherspoons said they weren't going to be able to pay wages unless the government helped? Maybe Tim Martin has £10m sat in his bank account (unlikely) - BFG might say that the rich should use it to pay wages. Great, he's paid 25% of wages for one month and now he's broke. His employees still can't afford their rent. The business goes under and everyone loses their jobs. How exactly has that helped?

You need to realise that the decision faced by a lot of businesses is not shall I pay my staff or keep all the money for myself, it's shall I pay everyone everything now or shall I try to make sure they still have a job in 3 months time.
Agree entirely. Nassim Taleb captures it perfectly, when he writes 'you get a different result if you wash a shirt before you iron it, than by simply ironing it.' What looks like a neat resolution today (80% furlough scheme, loan re-financing arrangements) is helpful but it doesn't really solve the scale of the future problem. We are not going to press a button and start the market from where we were three weeks ago. Will any sponsorship for sport be there? If so at what scale? Will Sky take a hit when it comes to subscribers renewing. How long will it take the same level of spectators to return? (Many will be reluctant to pay £45 a ticket) That's just rugby. Burning cash now in any business, might be a nice, kind thing to do but it will not save jobs longer term.

BFG
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by BFG » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:24 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:49 am
BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:10 am
Mark62 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:02 am

You are Jeremy Corbyn and I claim my £10
It's really not difficult Mark.
Life is more precious than money.
You are aware that not every business has a lot of money in the bank, aren't you? Particularly the hospitality businesses that are suffering at the moment.

Even many "wealthy" people don't have a lot of cash in the bank.

Let's take the Wetherspoons example. Published £58m profits recently. Pre tax. So let's say £45m after tax - ok, tax payments have been delayed, but they still need to be paid at some point. 43,000 employees - maybe an average of £1000 per month each, just a wild guess. That's £43m gone this month. So even if all that profit is sat in the bank, it will barely cover the first month. Then there are the suppliers that are owed money and a whole host of other costs. Bearing that in mind, and the fact that these businesses are likely to be closed for 3 months, why is it unreasonable that Wetherspoons said they weren't going to be able to pay wages unless the government helped? Maybe Tim Martin has £10m sat in his bank account (unlikely) - BFG might say that the rich should use it to pay wages. Great, he's paid 25% of wages for one month and now he's broke. His employees still can't afford their rent. The business goes under and every one loses their jobs. How exactly has that helped?

You need to realise that the decision faced by a lot of businesses is not shall I pay my staff or keep all the money for myself, it's shall I pay everyone everything now or shall I try to make sure they still have a job in 3 months time.
Imaginary facts of amounts and scenario's of what ifs.
Excuses to be a ??? and put business before people.
He could be broke in a month but they all survive another month together.

johnthegriff
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by johnthegriff » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:30 pm

Accept a wage cut now and a few months down the line you are made redundant with the package based on your then earnings. If you are a rugby player and you accept a pay cut then suffer a career ending injury, illness or death compensation based on earnings at the time is that fair to your family? All matters to discuss between employee and employer not just a decision made by the employer. I suggest that how a business looks after its employees may in the future have a big affect on retention and recruitment.

JP14
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by JP14 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:56 pm

Which would suggest Newcastle could struggle JohntheGriff.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

johnthegriff
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by johnthegriff » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:18 pm

I agree, hope a certain international winger is taking notes.

JP14
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by JP14 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:33 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:18 pm
I agree, hope a certain international winger is taking notes.
He probably is now, when he isn’t doing Tiktoks 😂.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:39 pm

My issue is the flat 25%, yes it is in theory fair, but 25% of not a lot isn't great.
Not all of Tigers Employees earn marque salaries.
There is no simple answer to this, but I do think the RPA aren't being terribly bright about this.

One thing this does show is the vulnerability of being effectively a self funding club.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

strawclearer
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by strawclearer » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:40 pm

"Bath players are the first to demand talks with the club while the Leicester Tigers squad is also known to be against the cuts."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugby-u ... s-COVID-19
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Cardiff Tig
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Cardiff Tig » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:57 am

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:39 pm
My issue is the flat 25%, yes it is in theory fair, but 25% of not a lot isn't great.
Not all of Tigers Employees earn marque salaries.
There is no simple answer to this, but I do think the RPA aren't being terribly bright about this.

One thing this does show is the vulnerability of being effectively a self funding club.
There's a difference though from just accepting changes to your contract and formally stating your disagreement but ultimately knowing/agreeing it will happen anyway.

Rugby is run by hard nosed business men - I'd be wary of having my contract ripped up in the future with the precedent having been set that you let the terms of your employment be altered without consultation.

sam16111986
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:15 am

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:39 pm
My issue is the flat 25%, yes it is in theory fair, but 25% of not a lot isn't great.
Not all of Tigers Employees earn marque salaries.
There is no simple answer to this, but I do think the RPA aren't being terribly bright about this.

One thing this does show is the vulnerability of being effectively a self funding club.
I suspect the non playing staff are furloughed so the government will cover 80% of their wages or will when the service actually works so they will not be taking the pay cut.

The 25% pay cut will be for the highly paid staff and the players as the government are only covering the 80% up to £2,500 a month. You'd hope the players would help the club out but I understand they might want the club to put a fixed date on how long the situation will last. Don't want to accept the reduction and the club to be able to say 6 months later that's is still required because the club is still recovering.

h's dad
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by h's dad » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:42 am

Traveller wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:55 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:49 am
BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:10 am


It's really not difficult Mark.
Life is more precious than money.
You are aware that not every business has a lot of money in the bank, aren't you? Particularly the hospitality businesses that are suffering at the moment.

Even many "wealthy" people don't have a lot of cash in the bank.

Let's take the Wetherspoons example. Published £58m profits recently. Pre tax. So let's say £45m after tax - ok, tax payments have been delayed, but they still need to be paid at some point. 43,000 employees - maybe an average of £1000 per month each, just a wild guess. That's £43m gone this month. So even if all that profit is sat in the bank, it will barely cover the first month. Then there are the suppliers that are owed money and a whole host of other costs. Bearing that in mind, and the fact that these businesses are likely to be closed for 3 months, why is it unreasonable that Wetherspoons said they weren't going to be able to pay wages unless the government helped? Maybe Tim Martin has £10m sat in his bank account (unlikely) - BFG might say that the rich should use it to pay wages. Great, he's paid 25% of wages for one month and now he's broke. His employees still can't afford their rent. The business goes under and everyone loses their jobs. How exactly has that helped?

You need to realise that the decision faced by a lot of businesses is not shall I pay my staff or keep all the money for myself, it's shall I pay everyone everything now or shall I try to make sure they still have a job in 3 months time.
Agree entirely. Nassim Taleb captures it perfectly, when he writes 'you get a different result if you wash a shirt before you iron it, than by simply ironing it.' What looks like a neat resolution today (80% furlough scheme, loan re-financing arrangements) is helpful but it doesn't really solve the scale of the future problem. We are not going to press a button and start the market from where we were three weeks ago. Will any sponsorship for sport be there? If so at what scale? Will Sky take a hit when it comes to subscribers renewing. How long will it take the same level of spectators to return? (Many will be reluctant to pay £45 a ticket) That's just rugby. Burning cash now in any business, might be a nice, kind thing to do but it will not save jobs longer term.
Steady on Mark and Traveller. BFG may be right and he finds it not difficult to run business and the economy at this difficult time. In which case in normal circumstances he must find it an absolute doddle and he must be a cash-rich multi-billionaire able to save us all with his loose change.

I don't know but I think there is more chance of Mark being right.
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sam16111986
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:13 am

h's dad wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:42 am
Traveller wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:55 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:49 am


You are aware that not every business has a lot of money in the bank, aren't you? Particularly the hospitality businesses that are suffering at the moment.

Even many "wealthy" people don't have a lot of cash in the bank.

Let's take the Wetherspoons example. Published £58m profits recently. Pre tax. So let's say £45m after tax - ok, tax payments have been delayed, but they still need to be paid at some point. 43,000 employees - maybe an average of £1000 per month each, just a wild guess. That's £43m gone this month. So even if all that profit is sat in the bank, it will barely cover the first month. Then there are the suppliers that are owed money and a whole host of other costs. Bearing that in mind, and the fact that these businesses are likely to be closed for 3 months, why is it unreasonable that Wetherspoons said they weren't going to be able to pay wages unless the government helped? Maybe Tim Martin has £10m sat in his bank account (unlikely) - BFG might say that the rich should use it to pay wages. Great, he's paid 25% of wages for one month and now he's broke. His employees still can't afford their rent. The business goes under and everyone loses their jobs. How exactly has that helped?

You need to realise that the decision faced by a lot of businesses is not shall I pay my staff or keep all the money for myself, it's shall I pay everyone everything now or shall I try to make sure they still have a job in 3 months time.
Agree entirely. Nassim Taleb captures it perfectly, when he writes 'you get a different result if you wash a shirt before you iron it, than by simply ironing it.' What looks like a neat resolution today (80% furlough scheme, loan re-financing arrangements) is helpful but it doesn't really solve the scale of the future problem. We are not going to press a button and start the market from where we were three weeks ago. Will any sponsorship for sport be there? If so at what scale? Will Sky take a hit when it comes to subscribers renewing. How long will it take the same level of spectators to return? (Many will be reluctant to pay £45 a ticket) That's just rugby. Burning cash now in any business, might be a nice, kind thing to do but it will not save jobs longer term.
Steady on Mark and Traveller. BFG may be right and he finds it not difficult to run business and the economy at this difficult time. In which case in normal circumstances he must find it an absolute doddle and he must be a cash-rich multi-billionaire able to save us all with his loose change.

I don't know but I think there is more chance of Mark being right.


The problem with the furlough scheme (80% of wages covered) is that the portal for registration isn't operational yet and so there's no rebates being paid. Companies could run out of cash in the short term before the rebates are ever paid. The loans are becoming a farce as well with the bank's playing silly :censored:.

BFG
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by BFG » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:25 pm

h's dad wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:42 am
Steady on Mark and Traveller. BFG may be right and he finds it not difficult to run business and the economy at this difficult time. In which case in normal circumstances he must find it an absolute doddle and he must be a cash-rich multi-billionaire able to save us all with his loose change.

I don't know but I think there is more chance of Mark being right.
I don't know, I think johnthegriff sends a strong message.
Those who stick together come out stronger.
There are undoubtedly some lessons to be learned here.

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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by JP14 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Charlie Ewels has made a statement firmly denying that his teammates are seeking a revolt against Bath Rugby.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Scott1
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Scott1 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:57 pm

Does anyone have an idea what will happen as regards to promotion or relegation yet? Cant wait to see Rowes reaction if Sarries stay up be default 🤣 hope all you and yours are ok!

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