Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

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fleabane
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Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by fleabane » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:25 am

Better than the government's medical advice anyway.

The RFU decided to follow the advice and so Mako Vunipola, having stopped over in Hong Kong on his way back from Tonga, was made unavailable for England selection, and we were told he was self-isolating.

No he wasn't.

He was training with Sarries, who clearly decided that they knew best.

Arrogant or what?

I hope that he is not infected, and I hope that our players aren't either!
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oxontiger
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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by oxontiger » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:12 am

Would you expect anything else from Sarries? After all, player welfare is looked after so much better at Allianz Park...

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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by RichieB » Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:45 am

Doesn't make logical sense does it? He is either self-isolating or he isn't. If he should be self-isolating then he shouldn't be training and/or playing with his club side. If he doesn't need to self-isolate, he should be with the England squad.

But as the previous post says, Sarries make up the rules to suit themselves.

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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by Cardiff Tig » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:40 am

No, the RFU aren't following the advice. They are being over cautious, probably because the hit of canceling an international game is much worse than a league game.

But don't let that stop you from bashing Sarries at any opportunity for no reason.

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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by Traveller » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:49 am

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:40 am
No, the RFU aren't following the advice. They are being over cautious, probably because the hit of canceling an international game is much worse than a league game.

But don't let that stop you from bashing Sarries at any opportunity for no reason.
Overall I agree.

However given Saracens current standing in the game, you'd think the new CEO might have ensured the messaging from the media department was better. Not hard to join the dots with the RFU and get it right. 'Vunipola Out for Welsh Clash. Good news for Saracens.'

If you don't, because your lazy, or arrogant, or incompetent or all three, don't be surprised if people jump to their own conclusions, based on their experience of your past behaviours.

Basic rule: What's the headline
Answer: 'Sarries playing by their own rules again'.

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Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by Baz » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:10 am

"No, the RFU aren't following the advice. They are being over cautious, probably because the hit of canceling an international game is much worse than a league game.
But don't let that stop you from bashing Sarries at any opportunity for no reason."

You make no sense. If the RFU was being overcautious, they would have cancelled the game! Whatever advice there is, Sarries are not following it either. But this is not the issue; why is Mako Vunipola available for Saracens, but not for England?

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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:14 am

It would appear England are wrong in this case, tbh Cole will take apart at scrum time if he plays anyway, it's the rest of his game that's the issue.

Still it is far better just to blame the massive cheats, Sarries join Dayglo in my book in always being in the wrong regardless of the issue or the facts.
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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by Cardiff Tig » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:27 am

Baz wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:10 am
"No, the RFU aren't following the advice. They are being over cautious, probably because the hit of canceling an international game is much worse than a league game.
But don't let that stop you from bashing Sarries at any opportunity for no reason."

You make no sense. If the RFU was being overcautious, they would have cancelled the game! Whatever advice there is, Sarries are not following it either. But this is not the issue; why is Mako Vunipola available for Saracens, but not for England?
No, the advice is to self-isolate if you are showing any of the list of minor symptoms. The RFU have stated that Vunipola isn't showing symptoms but they still want him to stay away from the England camp. There is no scientific basis for the RFU decision to keep him away, other than being over cautious. Hence Sarries, who are following the expert advice, are happy for him to play. There is no issue here other than trying to make one up to criticise Sarries with.
Traveller wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:49 am
Overall I agree.

However given Saracens current standing in the game, you'd think the new CEO might have ensured the messaging from the media department was better. Not hard to join the dots with the RFU and get it right. 'Vunipola Out for Welsh Clash. Good news for Saracens.'

If you don't, because your lazy, or arrogant, or incompetent or all three, don't be surprised if people jump to their own conclusions, based on their experience of your past behaviours.

Basic rule: What's the headline
Answer: 'Sarries playing by their own rules again'.
So because Sarries haven't aligned there media team with the RFU they should be criticised? Again, seems like any excuse to knock them no matter what the occasion.

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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by Traveller » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:30 am

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:27 am
Baz wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:10 am
"No, the RFU aren't following the advice. They are being over cautious, probably because the hit of canceling an international game is much worse than a league game.
But don't let that stop you from bashing Sarries at any opportunity for no reason."

You make no sense. If the RFU was being overcautious, they would have cancelled the game! Whatever advice there is, Sarries are not following it either. But this is not the issue; why is Mako Vunipola available for Saracens, but not for England?
No, the advice is to self-isolate if you are showing any of the list of minor symptoms. The RFU have stated that Vunipola isn't showing symptoms but they still want him to stay away from the England camp. There is no scientific basis for the RFU decision to keep him away, other than being over cautious. Hence Sarries, who are following the expert advice, are happy for him to play. There is no issue here other than trying to make one up to criticise Sarries with.
Traveller wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:49 am
Overall I agree.

However given Saracens current standing in the game, you'd think the new CEO might have ensured the messaging from the media department was better. Not hard to join the dots with the RFU and get it right. 'Vunipola Out for Welsh Clash. Good news for Saracens.'

If you don't, because your lazy, or arrogant, or incompetent or all three, don't be surprised if people jump to their own conclusions, based on their experience of your past behaviours.

Basic rule: What's the headline
Answer: 'Sarries playing by their own rules again'.
So because Sarries haven't aligned there media team with the RFU they should be criticised? Again, seems like any excuse to knock them no matter what the occasion.
Opening line of my response - Overall I agree.

However when you have dug a huge hole for yourself the three standard crisis management rules are a) admit the crisis, b) over respond, c) over communicate.

Saracens are where they are, like it or not, and so they should be acutely aware of how everything they do will be scrutinised, and be assessed thru the prism of cheating, doing what they want to do, and there is greater likelihood of continued damage to their reputation, no matter how unfair or inaccurate. Media teams are employed to manage the message. The fact that the same headlines have appeared in the national press today proves the point.

I repeat, overall I agree with what you say, I think it is unfair, but it doesn't matter what I think, perception counts.

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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by jgriffin » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:28 pm

Since HK airport is a potential nexus for the virus, a 14 day self-isolation seems advisable. Neither Vunipola will know whether they have been in contact with the virus, and as very fit young men, may be subclinical/carriers - I assume Sarries will have ensured they have been tested? If not, then are Tigers and the rest of Sarries at risk? :smt017
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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by wellstiger » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:56 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:28 pm
Since HK airport is a potential nexus for the virus, a 14 day self-isolation seems advisable. Neither Vunipola will know whether they have been in contact with the virus, and as very fit young men, may be subclinical/carriers - I assume Sarries will have ensured they have been tested? If not, then are Tigers and the rest of Sarries at risk? :smt017
+1
I'm not Sorrys knocking. I am hoping common sense is being applied for the sake of both teams and sets of supporters.
Having worked in NHS, Isolation and prevention are key, especially coming through a "Hot zone"

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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by teds » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:45 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:27 am
No, the advice is to self-isolate if you are showing any of the list of minor symptoms. The RFU have stated that Vunipola isn't showing symptoms but they still want him to stay away from the England camp. There is no scientific basis for the RFU decision to keep him away, other than being over cautious. Hence Sarries, who are following the expert advice, are happy for him to play. There is no issue here other than trying to make one up to criticise Sarries with.
Can you tell us more about the expert medical advice Saracens have been given?
Was it more expert than the advice given to England?

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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by Tigerbeat » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:51 pm

Seems that Sarries are following the advice that is being given publicly. England look to have been more cautious and protective to the squad and decided that he should be away from the team environment.
Dont see any problems with the actions being undertaken by Sarries or England.
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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by teds » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:34 pm

Tigerbeat wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:51 pm
Seems that Sarries are following the advice that is being given publicly. England look to have been more cautious and protective to the squad and decided that he should be away from the team environment.
Dont see any problems with the actions being undertaken by Sarries or England.
If all they did was log onto the NHS website after the Rugby England had already advised Mako to self-isolate then I think it’s fair to criticise Saracens.

That said, it’s not clear what medical expertise England based their advice on either.

To spell out my view, the type of physical proximity that is involved in rugby makes it more likely that infections (if present) will be passed on to other players. The second issue is that this virus seems to be asymptomatic for many people presumably especially for fit young men, and that means that the risk of a mini outbreak are higher. We don’t get an early warning, it’s only when it passes onto players families and friends that we start to see people being hospitalised and some potentially dying.

Rugby clubs should be seeking advice that is specific to rugby as an occupation.

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Re: Coronavirus: Sarries know best!

Post by Noggs » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:41 pm

In the circumstances you might have thought that Sarries would have adopted the same 'better safe than sorry' approach that England have adopted.

The chances of infection are slim but if he has picked it up and it can be passed on prior to the first signs of illness then there is a good chance that both Sarries and Tigers players will become infected and in turn pass it on to others when they next play and so on.....

The current strategy is to delay the spread for as long as and where possible by containment but clearly our friends don't see it that way. :smt009
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