England v Wales

[biffer]

Manu's was a red all day long under the current guidelines - first point of contact was the head and with force. Mind you so was Parkes' on Manu that got nothing because he bounced up and play carried on after just the penalty.

Ken Owens' would probably have been a yellow had England not scored as it was always high but not a lot of force.

Marler will get in trouble - whilst he wasn't bag snatching he'll be punished under the same law which is 12-240 weeks I believe; will probably be right at the lower end but not have any mitigating circumstances

Someone (Sinckler? Curry?) got flipped being cleared out of a ruck and taken all the way over onto his back - that'll get cited.

Dillon Lewis' chop tackle on Sinckler was no handed but he ended up hurting himself so it was ignored.

Tomos Williams might get in trouble for a headbutt, albeit a weak one, on Itoje.

Surprised Farrel got in trouble for his palm strike/slap. I thought CJ Stander showed that an open handed strike was allowed


All in all I thought O'Keefe wasn't too bad with his real time decisions, it was the TMO who let him down by failing to support him for anything other than the Manu tackle

Yeah, the TMO had plenty of opportunity to intervene and chose not to. I thought Manu was in trouble in real time, immediately looked no arms around the head and neck. Ken Owens should have been off for the high tackle, I don’t see why a try being scored excuses foul play. Farrel’s slap was very funny, he got all upset because he got an elbow in the back of the head from one of his own players! TMO set the tone in the first minute when the big (targeted) hit on Biggar went in. Manu did enough to wrap in that instance but Curry went straight in with the shoulder, should have been a yellow. Had the TMO got involved then, I don’t think a lot of the incidents you mention would have happened.

[Traveller]

What for me is ruining the game is the totally arbitrary application of the laws, within the same match, at different phases of the same match (beginning, middle and end) between matches, and with different combinations of officials, including the use or non use of TMO reviews. I'll go with the MT red card, but wasn't Parks worthy of even a review?

Somewhere along the line the powers that be have got to get a grip and get some consistency. It is beyond a joke.

[BFG]

Manu's was a red all day long under the current guidelines - first point of contact was the head and with force. Mind you so was Parkes' on Manu that got nothing because he bounced up and play carried on after just the penalty.

Ken Owens' would probably have been a yellow had England not scored as it was always high but not a lot of force.

Marler will get in trouble - whilst he wasn't bag snatching he'll be punished under the same law which is 12-240 weeks I believe; will probably be right at the lower end but not have any mitigating circumstances

Someone (Sinckler? Curry?) got flipped being cleared out of a ruck and taken all the way over onto his back - that'll get cited.

Dillon Lewis' chop tackle on Sinckler was no handed but he ended up hurting himself so it was ignored.

Tomos Williams might get in trouble for a headbutt, albeit a weak one, on Itoje.

Surprised Farrel got in trouble for his palm strike/slap. I thought CJ Stander showed that an open handed strike was allowed


All in all I thought O'Keefe wasn't too bad with his real time decisions, it was the TMO who let him down by failing to support him for anything other than the Manu tackle

Yeah, the TMO had plenty of opportunity to intervene and chose not to. I thought Manu was in trouble in real time, immediately looked no arms around the head and neck. Ken Owens should have been off for the high tackle, I don’t see why a try being scored excuses foul play. Farrel’s slap was very funny, he got all upset because he got an elbow in the back of the head from one of his own players! TMO set the tone in the first minute when the big (targeted) hit on Biggar went in. Manu did enough to wrap in that instance but Curry went straight in with the shoulder, should have been a yellow. Had the TMO got involved then, I don’t think a lot of the incidents you mention would have happened.

Manu's type of attempted tackle we see all of the time, committed to tackling a player who then falls after the tackle begins, tackler tries to pull out, turns away to avoid a clash of heads, but can't completely avoid all contact and then is accused of no attempt to wrap arms which is just a load of rubbish talk.
Curry and Manu hit Biggar on a kick off, the power bounces him and the tacklers arms are only so long, and they are accused of no attempt to arm wrap which is more rubbish talk.
It was not really different to the desperate attempt by Heinz on Biggar when he scored.
The intent is the same but just the outcomes are slightly different.
I recall a LI player Delon Armitage desperately trying to tackle Jordan Crane with his feet in the 09 Prem final with a scowl of nasty intent on his face, that was real intent in my opinion, no sanction.
Red cards should be dished out for real nasty intent and not rugby incidents, in my opinion.

[JP14]

I wonder if Marler will be sanctioned for tweaking Alun Wyn Jones' wedding tackle?

Goode not happy on twitter about it. Minimum sanction could be as high as 12 weeks

Bit too “laddy” in my view.

[cheltexile]

I wonder if Marler will be sanctioned for tweaking Alun Wyn Jones' wedding tackle?

Goode not happy on twitter about it. Minimum sanction could be as high as 12 weeks

Goode was taking the :censored: when it happened, funny how he changed his tune when he saw everyone elses reaction. The man is a clown.

[AngusMcCoatup]

So Tigers had five players in the England team yesterday.
Jonny May lasted 8 minutes before HIA failure so out for say 3 weeks.
Manu scores for England then dubious red carded so he will be out for say 4 weeks,
George Ford had a brilliant game and boy don't we need him back at Tigers with yesterdays No.10 injuries too,
Ben Youngs ~ Man of the Match and well played I just hope we can have him back asap for Exeter and delighted that he re-signed last week as he might have elevated his expectations.
Poor Gengie came on and tried hard but got the "short straw " of the Farrell/ O'Keefe battle but can play for Tigers soon.
Steve Borthwick ~ with the Italy game postponed / cancelled? please release him to Tigers as we now have an enormous battle to get points with these injuries and player bans.
Parkes should have been carded for the head on head on Manu but a case of Southern Hemisphere rules?
Joe Marler returns this season from International retirement from his plumbing course feeling a little cocky and could be in a bit of trouble!
Thankyou England you have really dented the Tigers recovery!

[Longshanks]

The fallout from this match is going to be interesting to say the least. Manu will presumably face a disciplinary panel next week from which a ban seems inevitable. I don't imagine Eddie Jones calling the decision "ridiculous" together with his 13 against 16 comments to the media will help. Various citings will also follow and will prolong the post-match debate but arguably the most important element will be the review of match officials' performances. Of course the latter won't be in the public domain and we'll be left to surmise what the conclusions might have been based on future match appointments.

[RichieB]

AW Jones seemed to be enjoying it.

Gareth Thomas' quip just before the restart was brilliant

Yes - good on Gareth Thomas too. A bit of self-deprecating humour always welcome!

[ay2oh]

Will Manu be banned for just England games or Tigers as well ?

[kk20gb30]

Think we need ALL of our England representatives back as soon as....

[BFG]

Will Manu be banned for just England games or Tigers as well ?

It'll be in the coming weeks so for Tigers as well.
I'll be surprised if he is banned given the nature of how the game was refereed.
In particular how Parkes was allowed to high tackle Manu himself and how it kind of set the tone then it would be extremely harsh to impose a further ban in my opinion.

[sapajo]

Will Manu be banned for just England games or Tigers as well ?

It'll be in the coming weeks so for Tigers as well.
I'll be surprised if he is banned given the nature of how the game was refereed.
In particular how Parkes was allowed to high tackle Manu himself and how it kind of set the tone then it would be extremely harsh to impose a further ban in my opinion.

Sadly harshness or indeed any notion of fairness is seldom at the centre of any disciplinary hearing decision making and so I fear a long ban but desperately hope I am badly wrong. We need Manu back not keeping OTY company on the sidelines.

[Longshanks]

Will Manu be banned for just England games or Tigers as well ?

It'll be in the coming weeks so for Tigers as well.
I'll be surprised if he is banned given the nature of how the game was refereed.
In particular how Parkes was allowed to high tackle Manu himself and how it kind of set the tone then it would be extremely harsh to impose a further ban in my opinion.

Sadly harshness or indeed any notion of fairness is seldom at the centre of any disciplinary hearing decision making and so I fear a long ban but desperately hope I am badly wrong. We need Manu back not keeping OTY company on the sidelines.

I share your fear. Disciplinary panels seem to see themselves as an extension of the matchday officials rather than being in any way independent. I expect the 6N panel to endorse the on-field decision and to add a hefty ban - there will be some mitigation (despite what O'Keeffe stated at the time) but Manu's record will likely more than wipe that out. I don't think it would be a fair outcome but I have a horrible feeling Manu won't be available again to Tigers this season.

[ay2oh]

I know that the disciplinary system is a joke but would be very surprised if he got a ban for the rest of the season

[Old Hob]

Did anyone else think the challenge that took May out needed looking at? I did at the time. Straight away I was thinking deliberate elbow to the head. But I was on my own. may still be.