Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

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DeadlyDunc
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by DeadlyDunc » Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:53 pm

sapajo wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:01 pm
No blame from me, read what I actually posted not misrepresent it.
The point is that we aren’t in a 7yr project it’s year 2 at best.

Results are :censored: but there is progress and off the pitch at least a semblance of a plan and has been for 12 months or so now

longlivethecrumbie
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by longlivethecrumbie » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:27 pm

sapajo wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:22 pm
longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:16 pm
Cagey Tiger wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:03 pm


:smt015 :smt015 :smt015 :smt015
Do we have to have this every game until SB arrives and gets his feet under the table? It's only a week or two away. Or is this just getting a parting shot in?
Everyone seriously needs to get a grip! Whatever you think of Murphy's respective merits or otherwise as a head coach the fact is that he's staying on as part of the axis with Borthwick. We've had seasons of under investment in the pack which was partially rectified last summer. The back play, which seems to have gone backwards from the point at which Mike Ford first came in, is not down to Murphy - that is down to the backs/attack coach which is Mike Ford. The style of play is going to be dictated by Borthwick and the selection will be decided by Murphy and Borthwick, with Murphy having the overall casting vote - this has been confirmed in numerous articles on the club website and in press releases as well at the open forum earlier in the week.

We've been in decline for some time and that's primarily down to poor recruitment and the academy falling away. Those things are not fixed overnight. Anyone who thinks that Borthwick appearing will magically turn things around immediately is kidding themselves. This is going to take time, people. Take a chill pill, have some patience and get a grip (please) - this is a long haul project not an overnight quick fix
The fact is it's been 7 seasons since Tigers made a premiership final and we have had and continue to experience the 2 worst seasons in our history.. So please can you confirm how many more seasons do you believe we must continue to wait patiently for in order to successfully complete this long haul project?
It's going to be gradual and will take a couple more seasons. If you want/demand immediate improvement then I'm afraid you're in the wrong place

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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by sapajo » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:42 pm

Nowt as blind as those that refuse to see
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by sapajo » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:51 pm

DeadlyDunc wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:53 pm
sapajo wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:01 pm
No blame from me, read what I actually posted not misrepresent it.
The point is that we aren’t in a 7yr project it’s year 2 at best.

Results are :censored: but there is progress and off the pitch at least a semblance of a plan and has been for 12 months or so now
There you again I never said we were in a 7 year project I said its 7 years since we last reached the premiership and that's a fact. Read what I actually post and stop misrepresenting it to suit your agenda.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

longlivethecrumbie
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by longlivethecrumbie » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:11 pm

sapajo wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:42 pm
Nowt as blind as those that refuse to see
Is more upheaval really what's needed? Patience is a virtue and all that.

BFG
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by BFG » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:41 pm

I don't think that Leicester have found the right blend yet.
Can't fault the effort but could've done with a bit more attacking prowess in my opinion.
It was workmanlike but in the end it's about scoring more points than conceded.
I get the impression that Leicester have worked very hard to survive it but just want this international period to be over now.

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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by Tiglon » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:53 pm

DeadlyDunc wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:50 pm
sapajo wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:22 pm
longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:16 pm


Everyone seriously needs to get a grip! Whatever you think of Murphy's respective merits or otherwise as a head coach the fact is that he's staying on as part of the axis with Borthwick. We've had seasons of under investment in the pack which was partially rectified last summer. The back play, which seems to have gone backwards from the point at which Mike Ford first came in, is not down to Murphy - that is down to the backs/attack coach which is Mike Ford. The style of play is going to be dictated by Borthwick and the selection will be decided by Murphy and Borthwick, with Murphy having the overall casting vote - this has been confirmed in numerous articles on the club website and in press releases as well at the open forum earlier in the week.

We've been in decline for some time and that's primarily down to poor recruitment and the academy falling away. Those things are not fixed overnight. Anyone who thinks that Borthwick appearing will magically turn things around immediately is kidding themselves. This is going to take time, people. Take a chill pill, have some patience and get a grip (please) - this is a long haul project not an overnight quick fix
The fact is it's been 7 seasons since Tigers made a premiership final and we have had and continue to experience the 2 worst seasons in our history.. So please can you confirm how many more seasons do you believe we must continue to wait patiently for in order to successfully complete this long haul project?
Blimey!

Murphys getting the blame for the entire 7 years then?

As I’ve said any number of times, the decline started a decade ago and coincided with salary caps, poor recruitment, poor appointments of coaches and the rest of the league getting better as we got worse.

Very little of the above was GMs fault and I’d argue that recruitment and appointment of coaches has improved with Borthwick coming in.

I’ve also said it’s pretty clear no-one including GM himself considers him a Head Coach - he’s a DoR and
I won’t judge him until Borthwick is in position as that is going to be his key decision to be measured against
Except... he IS the Head Coach. So you're saying that the BoD don't consider him a HC, yet offered him the job and that he doesn't consider himself a HC, yet accepted the job? That sounds like a monumentally stupid cock up to me. :smt017

So what was the conversation when Geordie was appointed HC?

Cohen: "What are our options? We could go and search for a new HC, or we could appoint Murphy, but he won't be very good at it."
Murphy: "Yeah I'm definitely not a HC, I'd be a terrible HC."
Cohen: "So it's decided, we'll appoint Geordie as HC even though he's definitely not a HC and we all agree it won't be a success. All in favour?"
Murphy: "I'll have a crack at it, but like I said, I'll be really bad at it."
Everyone else: "Great idea, let's do it."

In my work place, there are plenty of people who would be incapable of competently performing certain roles - so I don't give them those roles. It's not hard to avoid giving someone a job they won't be very good at when you know they won't be very good at it and when they themselves know they won't be very good at it.

Luckily, it's nearly over and we are all completely certain that Murphy will be brilliant at another job that he's never done before. What could go wrong?

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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:17 am

If Borthwick comes in & the poop doesn't immediately smell of roses are the usual carpers going to blame GM for that as well. We are where we are due to a succession of poor decisions, that go back a long way.

Anyone who expected more than nill points to us from today at the release of the fixture list is probably the president of the happy clappers club.

The fact we appear to of been competitive today is a huge positive.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

tigerssteve
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by tigerssteve » Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:57 am

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:53 pm
DeadlyDunc wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:50 pm
sapajo wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:22 pm


The fact is it's been 7 seasons since Tigers made a premiership final and we have had and continue to experience the 2 worst seasons in our history.. So please can you confirm how many more seasons do you believe we must continue to wait patiently for in order to successfully complete this long haul project?
Blimey!

Murphys getting the blame for the entire 7 years then?

As I’ve said any number of times, the decline started a decade ago and coincided with salary caps, poor recruitment, poor appointments of coaches and the rest of the league getting better as we got worse.

Very little of the above was GMs fault and I’d argue that recruitment and appointment of coaches has improved with Borthwick coming in.

I’ve also said it’s pretty clear no-one including GM himself considers him a Head Coach - he’s a DoR and
I won’t judge him until Borthwick is in position as that is going to be his key decision to be measured against
Except... he IS the Head Coach. So you're saying that the BoD don't consider him a HC, yet offered him the job and that he doesn't consider himself a HC, yet accepted the job? That sounds like a monumentally stupid cock up to me. :smt017

So what was the conversation when Geordie was appointed HC?

Cohen: "What are our options? We could go and search for a new HC, or we could appoint Murphy, but he won't be very good at it."
Murphy: "Yeah I'm definitely not a HC, I'd be a terrible HC."
Cohen: "So it's decided, we'll appoint Geordie as HC even though he's definitely not a HC and we all agree it won't be a success. All in favour?"
Murphy: "I'll have a crack at it, but like I said, I'll be really bad at it."
Everyone else: "Great idea, let's do it."

In my work place, there are plenty of people who would be incapable of competently performing certain roles - so I don't give them those roles. It's not hard to avoid giving someone a job they won't be very good at when you know they won't be very good at it and when they themselves know they won't be very good at it.

Luckily, it's nearly over and we are all completely certain that Murphy will be brilliant at another job that he's never done before. What could go wrong?
As the old saying goes, ' staff are promoted to their level of inefficiency '. True whatever line of work one is in. We've all worked for people who were promoted once too often I bet.

sam16111986
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:29 am

BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:41 pm
I don't think that Leicester have found the right blend yet.
Can't fault the effort but could've done with a bit more attacking prowess in my opinion.
It was workmanlike but in the end it's about scoring more points than conceded.
I get the impression that Leicester have worked very hard to survive it but just want this international period to be over now.
Agreed. The ineffective attack is now causing us issues. Generally the defence is half decent and the forwards do well but we do little with the ball when we have it. Hoping to get the England contingent back might help but it's unlikely to fix all our problems.

longlivethecrumbie
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by longlivethecrumbie » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:33 am

sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:29 am
BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:41 pm
I don't think that Leicester have found the right blend yet.
Can't fault the effort but could've done with a bit more attacking prowess in my opinion.
It was workmanlike but in the end it's about scoring more points than conceded.
I get the impression that Leicester have worked very hard to survive it but just want this international period to be over now.
Agreed. The ineffective attack is now causing us issues. Generally the defence is half decent and the forwards do well but we do little with the ball when we have it. Hoping to get the England contingent back might help but it's unlikely to fix all our problems.
Which was kinda my point on an earlier post. Mike Ford is the attack coach and our attack is ineffectual at best. For all the finger pointing at Geordan, what the hell is Ford doing with the attack? When he came in last year we looked better than we do now. Was that a dead cat bouncing situation?

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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:41 am

longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:33 am
sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:29 am
BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:41 pm
I don't think that Leicester have found the right blend yet.
Can't fault the effort but could've done with a bit more attacking prowess in my opinion.
It was workmanlike but in the end it's about scoring more points than conceded.
I get the impression that Leicester have worked very hard to survive it but just want this international period to be over now.
Agreed. The ineffective attack is now causing us issues. Generally the defence is half decent and the forwards do well but we do little with the ball when we have it. Hoping to get the England contingent back might help but it's unlikely to fix all our problems.
Which was kinda my point on an earlier post. Mike Ford is the attack coach and our attack is ineffectual at best. For all the finger pointing at Geordan, what the hell is Ford doing with the attack? When he came in last year we looked better than we do now. Was that a dead cat bouncing situation?
I wonder if the whole attack is set up for George & that it won't work without him, but it hasn't exactly worked with him either, I have never been convinced by Ford Snr, certainly not attacking wise. 12 is still a real problem position for us, I would like to see us give Worth a run there.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

sam16111986
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:50 am

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:41 am
longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:33 am
sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:29 am


Agreed. The ineffective attack is now causing us issues. Generally the defence is half decent and the forwards do well but we do little with the ball when we have it. Hoping to get the England contingent back might help but it's unlikely to fix all our problems.
Which was kinda my point on an earlier post. Mike Ford is the attack coach and our attack is ineffectual at best. For all the finger pointing at Geordan, what the hell is Ford doing with the attack? When he came in last year we looked better than we do now. Was that a dead cat bouncing situation?
I wonder if the whole attack is set up for George & that it won't work without him, but it hasn't exactly worked with him either, I have never been convinced by Ford Snr, certainly not attacking wise. 12 is still a real problem position for us, I would like to see us give Worth a run there.
I don't think it's an issue with the person in the 12 shirt I think it's an issue with the structure or lack thereof. All our attacking moves are far to easy to identify. Unsure what Ford Snr is doing also. I wonder if Borthwick will ask to bring in any of his own people?

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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by JP14 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:15 am

Encouraging to hear that Leatigaga had a good game, now we know he’s equally effective on both sides of the scrum and has the fitness to start games. Good to hear about Batley, knew he’s a really good player and we should keep him next season he could be a Slater-esq find.

Deserved at least the LBP from the sounds of it, but unfortunately if Veainu goes for the intercept it’s high risk, high reward scenario and it didn’t pay off. Never mind.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by johnthegriff » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:40 am

Having been at the game although sitting in a corner my impressions are first that this was not a bad performance by our team although we lost. The pack as a unit did well, Kalamafoni good as captain got through a lot of work as ever. Leatigaga, Batley & Spencer I thought had their best games for Tigers. Ben White another good performance. From where I sat I could see that TV knocked on when going for the intercept but I am not sure that it deserved a yellow, I may revise that opinion when I see it on television, also not sure about the forward pass ruling that prevented us scoring. Shame McPhillips got injured so early I was looking forward to seeing what he could do, Tom Hardwick played well when he came on and Kyle Eastman also had a decent game. The yellow card hurt us and Saracens made good use of the extra space. In my opinion this actually was a better performance in defeat than our win against Worcester and far ahead of our loss at Sale.

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