Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

[drc_007]

Whilst the defence was better in getting people into the correct positions on the field, we still miss too many tackles. According to the stats 36 missed tackles against Saracens, you just can't hope to stay in the game with those stats. The real weakness is out wide with wingers missing 10 tackles between them.

[Traveller]

The fact is it's been 7 seasons since Tigers made a premiership final and we have had and continue to experience the 2 worst seasons in our history.. So please can you confirm how many more seasons do you believe we must continue to wait patiently for in order to successfully complete this long haul project?

Blimey!

Murphys getting the blame for the entire 7 years then?

As I’ve said any number of times, the decline started a decade ago and coincided with salary caps, poor recruitment, poor appointments of coaches and the rest of the league getting better as we got worse.

Very little of the above was GMs fault and I’d argue that recruitment and appointment of coaches has improved with Borthwick coming in.

I’ve also said it’s pretty clear no-one including GM himself considers him a Head Coach - he’s a DoR and
I won’t judge him until Borthwick is in position as that is going to be his key decision to be measured against

Except... he IS the Head Coach. So you're saying that the BoD don't consider him a HC, yet offered him the job and that he doesn't consider himself a HC, yet accepted the job? That sounds like a monumentally stupid cock up to me.

So what was the conversation when Geordie was appointed HC?

Cohen: "What are our options? We could go and search for a new HC, or we could appoint Murphy, but he won't be very good at it."
Murphy: "Yeah I'm definitely not a HC, I'd be a terrible HC."
Cohen: "So it's decided, we'll appoint Geordie as HC even though he's definitely not a HC and we all agree it won't be a success. All in favour?"
Murphy: "I'll have a crack at it, but like I said, I'll be really bad at it."
Everyone else: "Great idea, let's do it."

In my work place, there are plenty of people who would be incapable of competently performing certain roles - so I don't give them those roles. It's not hard to avoid giving someone a job they won't be very good at when you know they won't be very good at it and when they themselves know they won't be very good at it.

Luckily, it's nearly over and we are all completely certain that Murphy will be brilliant at another job that he's never done before. What could go wrong?

Chapter 2 Employment Tribunal Case No: P 34 W11 L23
G Murphy v Leicester Tigers

Claimant (GM) sues for constructive dismissal on the basis that his continuance in the role of Head Coach was made impossible by employers due to his own performance in the role.

Claimant’s Barrister: Mr Murphy can you give the tribunal a brief summary of your claim?

Claimant: Well about 18 months ago at a Board Meeting, which I was invited to attend, I was asked my opinion about who should be the new Head Coach, and I said, I don’t really know but one thing’s for certain, I couldn’t do the job. And everyone fell around laughing and said “we all know that Geordie, don’t worry”, and I said “Thank goodness for that, I thought you’d invited me here to persuade me to do a job, you know I wouldn’t be suited for’ and the CEO Simon Cohen who has absolute responsibility for nothing, said “That’s exactly why we’ve invited you Geordie, are you familiar with the phrase ‘last man standing’, but let’s be clear it would be on an interim basis. This is a results-based business Geordie for all of us (well, I’m the exception that proves the rule) and given the fact that we are all confident you couldn’t do the job, there would have to be a very rigorous probationary period in place, which would last eleven matches. We’d be looking for real consistency in results, before we confirm you in role.” And so, it was with that vote of confidence ringing in my ears that I accepted the job I knew I wasn’t capable of doing. I worked tirelessly over the next three months and we did find a consistency of match day performance, and that consistency continued into my second season as Head Coach. We fought our way into the relegation zone pretty quickly, and have stayed there for nearly 18 months. A record of Played 34 Prem matches Lost 23 represents a consistency of performance that no other Head Coach in Tigers history has got vaguely close to equalling.

Claimant’s Barrister: And how have you been rewarded as a consequence Mr Murphy?

Claimant: I’ve been promoted.

[kk20gb30]

Blimey!

Murphys getting the blame for the entire 7 years then?

As I’ve said any number of times, the decline started a decade ago and coincided with salary caps, poor recruitment, poor appointments of coaches and the rest of the league getting better as we got worse.

Very little of the above was GMs fault and I’d argue that recruitment and appointment of coaches has improved with Borthwick coming in.

I’ve also said it’s pretty clear no-one including GM himself considers him a Head Coach - he’s a DoR and
I won’t judge him until Borthwick is in position as that is going to be his key decision to be measured against

Except... he IS the Head Coach. So you're saying that the BoD don't consider him a HC, yet offered him the job and that he doesn't consider himself a HC, yet accepted the job? That sounds like a monumentally stupid cock up to me.

So what was the conversation when Geordie was appointed HC?

Cohen: "What are our options? We could go and search for a new HC, or we could appoint Murphy, but he won't be very good at it."
Murphy: "Yeah I'm definitely not a HC, I'd be a terrible HC."
Cohen: "So it's decided, we'll appoint Geordie as HC even though he's definitely not a HC and we all agree it won't be a success. All in favour?"
Murphy: "I'll have a crack at it, but like I said, I'll be really bad at it."
Everyone else: "Great idea, let's do it."

In my work place, there are plenty of people who would be incapable of competently performing certain roles - so I don't give them those roles. It's not hard to avoid giving someone a job they won't be very good at when you know they won't be very good at it and when they themselves know they won't be very good at it.

Luckily, it's nearly over and we are all completely certain that Murphy will be brilliant at another job that he's never done before. What could go wrong?

Chapter 2 Employment Tribunal Case No: P 34 W11 L23
G Murphy v Leicester Tigers

Claimant (GM) sues for constructive dismissal on the basis that his continuance in the role of Head Coach was made impossible by employers due to his own performance in the role.

Claimant’s Barrister: Mr Murphy can you give the tribunal a brief summary of your claim?

Claimant: Well about 18 months ago at a Board Meeting, which I was invited to attend, I was asked my opinion about who should be the new Head Coach, and I said, I don’t really know but one thing’s for certain, I couldn’t do the job. And everyone fell around laughing and said “we all know that Geordie, don’t worry”, and I said “Thank goodness for that, I thought you’d invited me here to persuade me to do a job, you know I wouldn’t be suited for’ and the CEO Simon Cohen who has absolute responsibility for nothing, said “That’s exactly why we’ve invited you Geordie, are you familiar with the phrase ‘last man standing’, but let’s be clear it would be on an interim basis. This is a results-based business Geordie for all of us (well, I’m the exception that proves the rule) and given the fact that we are all confident you couldn’t do the job, there would have to be a very rigorous probationary period in place, which would last eleven matches. We’d be looking for real consistency in results, before we confirm you in role.” And so, it was with that vote of confidence ringing in my ears that I accepted the job I knew I wasn’t capable of doing. I worked tirelessly over the next three months and we did find a consistency of match day performance, and that consistency continued into my second season as Head Coach. We fought our way into the relegation zone pretty quickly, and have stayed there for nearly 18 months. A record of Played 34 Prem matches Lost 23 represents a consistency of performance that no other Head Coach in Tigers history has got vaguely close to equalling.

Claimant’s Barrister: And how have you been rewarded as a consequence Mr Murphy?

Claimant: I’ve been promoted.

Many a true word is spoken in jest....

[BFG]

Agreed. The ineffective attack is now causing us issues. Generally the defence is half decent and the forwards do well but we do little with the ball when we have it. Hoping to get the England contingent back might help but it's unlikely to fix all our problems.

Which was kinda my point on an earlier post. Mike Ford is the attack coach and our attack is ineffectual at best. For all the finger pointing at Geordan, what the hell is Ford doing with the attack? When he came in last year we looked better than we do now. Was that a dead cat bouncing situation?

I wonder if the whole attack is set up for George & that it won't work without him, but it hasn't exactly worked with him either, I have never been convinced by Ford Snr, certainly not attacking wise. 12 is still a real problem position for us, I would like to see us give Worth a run there.

I always thought that Worth would be a good squad 10.
I'd like to see Hardwick developed as a senior 12, a potential Anthony Allen type player in the future in my opinion.
Personally I don't think young players constantly moving around whilst trying to adapt to the intensity of the men's game is always helpful.
Yes move around once adapted but not whilst adapting.
Got some good players but needing to master positions.

[Scuttle]

Looking on the bright side it was almost an identical score as our home game against them. Indeed, one could say we are improving as we scored 3 more points in the away fixture...24-10 versus 24-13.

[Traveller]

Looking on the bright side it was almost an identical score as our home game against them. Indeed, one could say we are improving as we scored 3 more points in the away fixture...24-10 versus 24-13.

Words like 'straws' and 'clutching'............................

[Leicestertinytiger]

Which was kinda my point on an earlier post. Mike Ford is the attack coach and our attack is ineffectual at best. For all the finger pointing at Geordan, what the hell is Ford doing with the attack? When he came in last year we looked better than we do now. Was that a dead cat bouncing situation?

I wonder if the whole attack is set up for George & that it won't work without him, but it hasn't exactly worked with him either, I have never been convinced by Ford Snr, certainly not attacking wise. 12 is still a real problem position for us, I would like to see us give Worth a run there.

I always thought that Worth would be a good squad 10.
I'd like to see Hardwick developed as a senior 12, a potential Anthony Allen type player in the future in my opinion.
Personally I don't think young players constantly moving around whilst trying to adapt to the intensity of the men's game is always helpful.
Yes move around once adapted but not whilst adapting.
Got some good players but needing to master positions.

100% agree, Hardwick would make a great 12 and has all the attributes to be a modern centre. He almost doesn’t have the mindset to play 10 in controlling the game.

Worth will be one of those players who can cover 13, 15 and 10. Invaluable squad player and never lets anyone down.

[Dangerous4]

I just hope Borthwick will instigate changing some of our coaches.

[sapajo]

I just hope Borthwick will instigate changing some of our coaches.

Depends if Smurph and/or the Board allows it.

[CrumblingTerrace]

This is misplaced loyalty taken to it's extreme.

I feel there's a storm brewing with Borthwick's arrival because Murphy is his boss and will still pick the team. But on what basis should Murphy's opinion trump Borthwick's? The latter has been successful as a coach, the former has done nothing. What happens when they disagree and Borthwick has to follow Murphy's ill-fated ways?

Or do we cross our fingers and hope they agree about everything?

[JP14]

Borthwick would have never took up the job here at Leicester if he didn’t think he would get along with Murphy.

[kk20gb30]

Borthwick would have never took up the job here at Leicester if he didn’t think he would get along with Murphy.

This no doubt has credence , but surely we could have said the same with Richard Cockerill and Aaron Mauger and look how that ended.
To me it all ends with the DoR , his is the last word .Contingencies may be in place whereby all first team affairs are the sole proviso of the Head Coach but we just do not know ( though I somehow do not se this).Having and sharing a' vision' is one thing - how that vision is attained in another story.
To me/for me Borthwick must be supported to stand or fall on his own , based on his own choices and views.Sure take advice when needed or wanted but ignore it as seen fit.Maybe it would have been better to bring Borthwick in as DoR - but only time will tell.
The one thing we don't want are the rumors to start circulating next season of differences of opinion between the DoR and Head Coach.We have been there before - and it didn't end well.

[strawclearer]

There have been discussions between GM and SB over many months about the working relationship. Borthwick is as keen to be working with Geordie as the vast majority of the players evidently are!

[TigerBoy1880]

Do we have to have this every game until SB arrives and gets his feet under the table? It's only a week or two away. Or is this just getting a parting shot in?

Everyone seriously needs to get a grip! Whatever you think of Murphy's respective merits or otherwise as a head coach the fact is that he's staying on as part of the axis with Borthwick. We've had seasons of under investment in the pack which was partially rectified last summer. The back play, which seems to have gone backwards from the point at which Mike Ford first came in, is not down to Murphy - that is down to the backs/attack coach which is Mike Ford. The style of play is going to be dictated by Borthwick and the selection will be decided by Murphy and Borthwick, with Murphy having the overall casting vote - this has been confirmed in numerous articles on the club website and in press releases as well at the open forum earlier in the week.

We've been in decline for some time and that's primarily down to poor recruitment and the academy falling away. Those things are not fixed overnight. Anyone who thinks that Borthwick appearing will magically turn things around immediately is kidding themselves. This is going to take time, people. Take a chill pill, have some patience and get a grip (please) - this is a long haul project not an overnight quick fix

The fact is it's been 7 seasons since Tigers made a premiership final and we have had and continue to experience the 2 worst seasons in our history.. So please can you confirm how many more seasons do you believe we must continue to wait patiently for in order to successfully complete this long haul project?

No one is able to confirm that as no one can see into the future. I think that’s pretty obvious and actually a bit of a silly question.

However long it takes, I’ll turn up, show my support and get behind the team in my role as a supporter.

[johnthegriff]

Strawclearer, are you suggesting that Borthwick, Murphy and the players know more about how they will work together than the various posters on this and other messageboards, if so then that is a truly radical thought?