Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

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TigerBoy1880
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by TigerBoy1880 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:11 am

CrumblingTerrace wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:04 am
This is misplaced loyalty taken to it's extreme.

I feel there's a storm brewing with Borthwick's arrival because Murphy is his boss and will still pick the team. But on what basis should Murphy's opinion trump Borthwick's? The latter has been successful as a coach, the former has done nothing. What happens when they disagree and Borthwick has to follow Murphy's ill-fated ways?

Or do we cross our fingers and hope they agree about everything?
They won’t agree on everything. No one ever will and if that’s the case, it will take longer to improve. If Borthwick comes in and agrees to everything Murphy says, Borthwick may as well not turn up to start his job with us. Murphy will have the final say as he will be DOR so if they both think differently on something, Murphy will either decide to go with how he wants it done or will go with what Borthwick suggests. I have no problem with that. That’s exactly how it should be.

strawclearer
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by strawclearer » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:24 am

johnthegriff wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:09 am
Strawclearer, are you suggesting that Borthwick, Murphy and the players know more about how they will work together than the various posters on this and other messageboards, if so then that is a truly radical thought?
You might very well think that. I could not possibly comment! :smt002
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by kend » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:48 am

I thought Tigers played reasonably well. Sarries used the yellow card period effectively and left us chasing the game. I don't think you can criticise TV for going for the intercept; it's risky but high reward. Certainly a yellow though.

I'm puzzled by the speculation about working relationships at this point. I think you can be reasonably sure that Borthwick will have asked himself the question 'can I work within the management structure at Tigers?' before accepting the job. After all, he's been working with Eddie Jones for some while......

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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by strawclearer » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:03 am

It goes beyond that. I know you're referring to the whole management structure but, as far as Borthwick's attitude to Geordie is concerned, it's not so much 'can I work with him' as 'I want to work with him'.
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
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Noggs
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by Noggs » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:46 am

strawclearer wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:03 am
It goes beyond that. I know you're referring to the whole management structure but, as far as Borthwick's attitude to Geordie is concerned, it's not so much 'can I work with him' as 'I want to work with him'.
The relationship will have been looked at in detail and agreed by all parties. Hopefully it will work well; we just ave to give it a chance.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

CrumblingTerrace
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by CrumblingTerrace » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:55 am

kend wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:48 am
I think you can be reasonably sure that Borthwick will have asked himself the question 'can I work within the management structure at Tigers?' before accepting the job. After all, he's been working with Eddie Jones for some while......
The difference: Eddie Jones is a highly successful, experienced coach who will command respect because his record backs him up.

Geordie has no such record. He has had precious little success as a coach.

Have you ever been in the position at work where somebody has clearly been promoted beyond their ability? How did that go? Did that person command respect? Or did their team become strained because the direct reports were demonstrably more capable than the boss?

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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by Noggs » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:33 pm

CrumblingTerrace wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:55 am
kend wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:48 am
I think you can be reasonably sure that Borthwick will have asked himself the question 'can I work within the management structure at Tigers?' before accepting the job. After all, he's been working with Eddie Jones for some while......
The difference: Eddie Jones is a highly successful, experienced coach who will command respect because his record backs him up.

Geordie has no such record. He has had precious little success as a coach.

Have you ever been in the position at work where somebody has clearly been promoted beyond their ability? How did that go? Did that person command respect? Or did their team become strained because the direct reports were demonstrably more capable than the boss?
Based on what you are saying you think Borthwick doesn't know what he is doing. Should this be true (not my opinion) we are in trouble.

Borthwick is coming so why not give it a chance? You will be seen to be either right or wrong in due course.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

fortysix
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by fortysix » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:03 pm

The only thing Borthwick and Murphy have in common is that they used to play Rugby
Borthwick played structured sensible Rugby.
Geordan just followed his instinct.
To me, having Murphy anywhere near the team spells unmitigated disaster. Time will tell....

sapajo
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by sapajo » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:06 pm

It seems to me that its Murphy that Crumbling Terrace is rightly concerned about not Borthwick.
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by ads » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:31 pm

Have you ever been in the position at work where somebody has clearly been promoted beyond their ability? How did that go? Did that person command respect? Or did their team become strained because the direct reports were demonstrably more capable than the boss?
Some people are good at some parts of a job others are better at others. Murphy himself has said that his coaching is not great, but he may be a very good manager. Which, the behind the scenes stuff is kind of showing I think.

I'm a Civil Engineer, and some people make great engineers but not great managers. Then you get people who come in to manage but have no idea of the actual engineering required in the projects. The best managers I've worked have been Engineers so have experience and know what they're talking about but are very good at managing people and projects. Hopefully this will be GM in the DoR position.

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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by strawclearer » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:37 pm

CrumblingTerrace wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:55 am
kend wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:48 am
I think you can be reasonably sure that Borthwick will have asked himself the question 'can I work within the management structure at Tigers?' before accepting the job. After all, he's been working with Eddie Jones for some while......
The difference: Eddie Jones is a highly successful, experienced coach who will command respect because his record backs him up.

Geordie has no such record. He has had precious little success as a coach.

Have you ever been in the position at work where somebody has clearly been promoted beyond their ability? How did that go? Did that person command respect? Or did their team become strained because the direct reports were demonstrably more capable than the boss?
Only one of them has 'Coach' in his title.

Not only that, he is the 'Head Coach'. There is no-one coaching the team who is higher than him.

That is all.
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
Stay Home>Protect The NHS>Save Lives

JP14
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by JP14 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:08 pm

Back to the game, I've watched the highlights and that was some carry by Spencer!
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

JP14
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by JP14 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:10 pm

Also I feel that we are unlucky not to be in contention for Try of the Week, lovely interplay between Heyes, Spencer & White.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Leicestertinytiger
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:13 pm

Typical Spencer has his best game in a Tigers shirt when he’s off to Bath. :smt010

MCC1964
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Re: Sarries vs Leicester - Teams Up

Post by MCC1964 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:52 pm

Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:13 pm
Typical Spencer has his best game in a Tigers shirt when he’s off to Bath. :smt010
Just like Freddie Burns then. Never played better than after it was announced he was leaving.

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