SARRIES FUTURE

[h's dad]

Totally agree. Unless the current rules are changed or waived (and why should they be) if they win the Championship next year they fall at the first hurdle. That means they are looking at a minimum of 2 years in the Championship and who knows, at the end of that period the Premiership may well have raised the drawbridge.

Have either of you actually read the salary cap rules? Clearly not. Perhaps you should, it might clear up a few misunderstandings...

Sarries will be back in a year, they won't fade away and be forgotten. I honestly think some of you people live on a different planet.

Perhaps you could enlighten us?

With reference to the salary cap rules, quotes from the pertinent sections and explanations? Your expertise in the matter is clearly superior and some of us are so in need of bringing up to scratch.

I eagerly await the merest opportunity to bask in the glory of your munificence.

I think you've all read the regulations and you're arguing over the error in 15.2 for 2019/20 that hasn't been updated from the previous season. .

[loretta]

Have either of you actually read the salary cap rules? Clearly not. Perhaps you should, it might clear up a few misunderstandings...

Sarries will be back in a year, they won't fade away and be forgotten. I honestly think some of you people live on a different planet.

Perhaps you could enlighten us?

With reference to the salary cap rules, quotes from the pertinent sections and explanations? Your expertise in the matter is clearly superior and some of us are so in need of bringing up to scratch.

I eagerly await the merest opportunity to bask in the glory of your munificence.

I think you've all read the regulations and you're arguing over the error in 15.2 for 2019/20 that hasn't been updated from the previous season. .

Frankly, it's the tone of the response that got my back up. A bit more respect required to other posters I think, and if someone has a better understanding of the situation why not just explain it clearly instead of giving out insults? No statement that includes "you people" will ever go down well!

As far as the regs are concerned, my understanding is this. 2 documents are required for 2 separate years. A declaration and a certificate. The declaration appears to be a declaration of intent for the coming year (the one in the prem, following promotion), whereas the certificate refers to the previous (the one in the championship). Hence, Sarries will stay down for just 1 year, assuming they top the league, meet the criteria regarding their facilities and ring fencing doesn't happen.

Now, that wasn't hard, was it?


Now, if I'm wrong, please explain in a respectful and polite manner.

[Noggs]

Perhaps you could enlighten us?

With reference to the salary cap rules, quotes from the pertinent sections and explanations? Your expertise in the matter is clearly superior and some of us are so in need of bringing up to scratch.

I eagerly await the merest opportunity to bask in the glory of your munificence.

I think you've all read the regulations and you're arguing over the error in 15.2 for 2019/20 that hasn't been updated from the previous season. .

Frankly, it's the tone of the response that got my back up. A bit more respect required to other posters I think, and if someone has a better understanding of the situation why not just explain it clearly instead of giving out insults? No statement that includes "you people" will ever go down well!

As far as the regs are concerned, my understanding is this. 2 documents are required for 2 separate years. A declaration and a certificate. The declaration appears to be a declaration of intent for the coming year (the one in the prem, following promotion), whereas the certificate refers to the previous (the one in the championship). Hence, Sarries will stay down for just 1 year, assuming they top the league, meet the criteria regarding their facilities and ring fencing doesn't happen.

Now, that wasn't hard, was it?


Now, if I'm wrong, please explain in a respectful and polite manner.

I for one am grateful for your detailed explanation.

I had not read the regulations myself but had read somewhere that compliance had to be for two seasons before promotion. If you are telling me that one of those seasons is seen as a commitment in respect to the first season after promotion then I bow to your superior knowledge. I am however a little confused as once promoted compliance has to be for all future years.

[loretta]

I think you've all read the regulations and you're arguing over the error in 15.2 for 2019/20 that hasn't been updated from the previous season. .

Frankly, it's the tone of the response that got my back up. A bit more respect required to other posters I think, and if someone has a better understanding of the situation why not just explain it clearly instead of giving out insults? No statement that includes "you people" will ever go down well!

As far as the regs are concerned, my understanding is this. 2 documents are required for 2 separate years. A declaration and a certificate. The declaration appears to be a declaration of intent for the coming year (the one in the prem, following promotion), whereas the certificate refers to the previous (the one in the championship). Hence, Sarries will stay down for just 1 year, assuming they top the league, meet the criteria regarding their facilities and ring fencing doesn't happen.

Now, that wasn't hard, was it?


Now, if I'm wrong, please explain in a respectful and polite manner.

I for one am grateful for your detailed explanation.

I had not read the regulations myself but had read somewhere that compliance had to be for two seasons before promotion. If you are telling me that one of those seasons is seen as a commitment in respect to the first season after promotion then I bow to your superior knowledge. I am however a little confused as once promoted compliance has to be for all future years.

It certainly seems that way. For the purposes of clarity,

"15.2 A Promoted Club shall provide copies of its Declaration for the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year and
its Certification for the 2017-18 Salary Cap Year as required under Regulations 4.2 and 4.3. "

and

"4.2 Declaration for 2018-19 Salary Cap Year
Between 1 June 2018 and by no later than 4.00pm on 30 June 2018, each Club, with the
exception of the Relegated Club, will provide to the Salary Cap Manager (with a copy to the
Accountants), in respect of the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year, a copy of: (said declaration)"

So, the declaration has to be submitted in June. Before the relevant season commences.

As for subsequent seasons, as you can see, with the exception of the relegated one all premiership clubs need to do this every year.

If there's an error there that changes how I understand it, I'd be genuinely grateful if someone could point it.

[h's dad]

It certainly seems that way. For the purposes of clarity,

"15.2 A Promoted Club shall provide copies of its Declaration for the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year and
its Certification for the 2017-18 Salary Cap Year as required under Regulations 4.2 and 4.3. "

and

"4.2 Declaration for 2018-19 Salary Cap Year
Between 1 June 2018 and by no later than 4.00pm on 30 June 2018, each Club, with the
exception of the Relegated Club, will provide to the Salary Cap Manager (with a copy to the
Accountants), in respect of the 2018-19 Salary Cap Year, a copy of: (said declaration)"

So, the declaration has to be submitted in June. Before the relevant season commences.

As for subsequent seasons, as you can see, with the exception of the relegated one all premiership clubs need to do this every year.

If there's an error there that changes how I understand it, I'd be genuinely grateful if someone could point it.

Spot on, although you seem to be quoting from the SCR for the 2018-19 season, the regulations are just rolled over for 2019-20 (except for the. failure to update 15.2's dates to the new season).

Saracens will have made a declaration at the start of the 2019-20 season. Whether, as the relegated club, they have to supply certification at the end of the season does not seem to be clear.

[Tiglon]

You're right, a declaration and a certificate is required. Your error is that you assume these are a declaration and certificate that the club was and is under the cap - they aren't. The certificate form even has an option to state that you were over the cap - so you can submit the certificate as required even if you were £7b over the cap.

I posted all this before in far more detail in a previous thread, I'm not going to waste that much time again.

I don't like the tone of many other posters on here, including Loretta sometimes, so it really doesn't bother me if those people don't like mine.

[h's dad]

You're right, a declaration and a certificate is required. Your error is that you assume these are a declaration and certificate that the club was and is under the cap - they aren't. The certificate form even has an option to state that you were over the cap - so you can submit the certificate as required even if you were £7b over the cap.

I posted all this before in far more detail in a previous thread, I'm not going to waste that much time again.

I don't like the tone of many other posters on here, including Loretta sometimes, so it really doesn't bother me if those people don't like mine.

£7b? If that's £7billion over the cap I would suggest that if you're in the Premiership you will not stay there (I can think of an example if you really want) and if you're looking for promotion to the Premiership and you certificate that that you were £7billion over the Premiership in your promotion season, you will not be accepted into the Premiership. So I'm not really sure what your point is? Of course, for £7billion you could buy every club and make up your own rules.

I love everybody's tone.

[fleabane]

The message today is « Be kind ».

[longlivethecrumbie]

The message today is « Be kind ».

It does make me wonder if posters would respond to one another in the same way if they were standing on the terrace having the same conversation?

Nope, thought not....

[BigDan50]

I think some posters on here would love to see Saracens cease to exist.

[Tiglon]

You're right, a declaration and a certificate is required. Your error is that you assume these are a declaration and certificate that the club was and is under the cap - they aren't. The certificate form even has an option to state that you were over the cap - so you can submit the certificate as required even if you were £7b over the cap.

I posted all this before in far more detail in a previous thread, I'm not going to waste that much time again.

I don't like the tone of many other posters on here, including Loretta sometimes, so it really doesn't bother me if those people don't like mine.

£7b? If that's £7billion over the cap I would suggest that if you're in the Premiership you will not stay there (I can think of an example if you really want) and if you're looking for promotion to the Premiership and you certificate that that you were £7billion over the Premiership in your promotion season, you will not be accepted into the Premiership. So I'm not really sure what your point is? Of course, for £7billion you could buy every club and make up your own rules.

I love everybody's tone.

My point is that you don't need to be within the cap to produce the required certificate.

[WhitecapTiger]

I think some posters on here would love to see Saracens cease to exist.

Some posters love to make excuses for them too.

[Scott1]

Tiglon is right,they don't need to be under the cap for two seasons. If they sort their finances out in th Championship and finish top they will be promoted. Once they get promoted the drawbridge will close,there's no way Rowe will vote for it this season hahaha

[Crofty]

I think some posters on here would love to see Saracens cease to exist.

Is that such an unreasonable desire? They were caught in 2015 and let go (along with Bath who's results dropped off noticeably subsequently). They were then caught again before the beginning of this season for cheating the 3 seasons prior and were punished, you can argue, leniently as the investigation indicated two 35 point deductions but it was argued to "run them concurrently". Sarries initial response was to threaten legal action before "taking their medicine". What Sarries didn't do was anything to bring down their wage bill this season and when offered the option, "open your books or be relegated" they chose relegation, suggesting that there is yet more they want to hide. All through this a section of their fans have been ceaseless in their "poor us" whining and vitriolic in their accusations about other clubs and there's been noticeably little contrition at the top of their organisation.

For me I don't want them to fold, we've seen enough clubs fall victim to this phase of professional rugby that we are currently in (one that Sarries played no small part in creating) but this period of their existence will last a long time as a stain on the character of the club and won't start to fade until they show at least a little remorse for what they did rather than for being caught.

[Scott1]

Zero sympathy from me, the mid season attempted fire sale instead of a preseason one told me that they were quite prepared to go through this season doing exactly the same as they had been doing all along!