SARRIES FUTURE

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Traveller
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Traveller » Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:01 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:30 pm
Traveller wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:58 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:43 pm
The problem with creating pantomime villains is that you forget no one else is a Saint either.

The reason other clubs didn't push harder for Sarries to open their books, and why it will never be a requirement, is that every other club has things to hide too.

Sarries weren't the only ones playing the game, they were just the ones that got caught.

Some of the sanctimonious Daily Mail execute-their-chairman-and-burn-their-ground-to-the-ground nonsense on here actually does make me feel a little sick.

it's done. It's finished. For your own sakes just move on with your lives and give up on the hatred!
The voice of reason. It was the use of bold letters that did it for me. The bold letters provided the clarity. I realise now, that when I commented on the quality of media reporting in relation to Saracens. What I was actually hoping for was an all knowing agony uncle, who could actually guide me and help me find fulfilment in my small hate filled life. And now I am free of the burden. And to think the advice was free.
The sarcasm goes well with the bitterness.

Isn't it about time you started talking about Mr Griffiths and his briefcase again? :smt015
It's just a bit weird that someone keeps telling contributors to a trail dedicated to Saracens Future to move on from discussing Saracens future.

As for the good Mr Griffiths briefcase - pretty sordid - but then that's Sarries for you.

Dokie
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Dokie » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:05 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:32 pm
What that club has done, is unforgivable. They have more than tarnished the game of rugby; more like ripped it apart.
Oh come on! Give it a year or two and it’ll be very much yesterday’s news (apart from for some on here!😉)

TigerFeetSteve
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:05 pm

There was a time when Quins and Dean Richards were considered awful. Now we see tributes to the guy.

Professional sport means that there is significant prizes tocbe gained. Those best at gaining the prizes are those who maximize their ability to win.

It so happens that those best at winning are those who push the boundaries. Professional sports means that sometimes boundaries get overstepped.

I dislike Sarries and the whole situation but at some point you have to decide enough is enough, decide what level punishment fits the crime and move on.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

Tiglon
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Tiglon » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:52 am

Traveller wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:01 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:30 pm
Traveller wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:58 pm


The voice of reason. It was the use of bold letters that did it for me. The bold letters provided the clarity. I realise now, that when I commented on the quality of media reporting in relation to Saracens. What I was actually hoping for was an all knowing agony uncle, who could actually guide me and help me find fulfilment in my small hate filled life. And now I am free of the burden. And to think the advice was free.
The sarcasm goes well with the bitterness.

Isn't it about time you started talking about Mr Griffiths and his briefcase again? :smt015
It's just a bit weird that someone keeps telling contributors to a trail dedicated to Saracens Future to move on from discussing Saracens future.

As for the good Mr Griffiths briefcase - pretty sordid - but then that's Sarries for you.
I find it more strange that in a trail dedicated to Saracens future some can't stop droning on about their past.

Do the police know he had a briefcase? You should probably let them know. That's definitely a crime. I saw a man carrying a briefcase once, it was just so sordid. I was appalled. A briefcase for heavens sake! In public!

wellstiger
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by wellstiger » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:15 am

I for one do not hate. I do however detest injustice.
I understand posters argument that the system that allowed ANY club to circumnavigate the spirit of the game by "Blue Sky" accounting was wrong. That books cannot be scrutinised is wrong, only by consent. That the punishment is only a token slap on the wrist is wrong.
Have the rules/legislation changed to prevent this happening again? Like said club NO APOLOGY .

Tiglon
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Tiglon » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:36 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51226614

Nigel Wray "I am really sorry".

So, if we're being honest, he definitely did apologise. But let's pretend we didn't read that, right?

Old Hob
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Old Hob » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:57 am

Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:36 am
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51226614

Nigel Wray "I am really sorry".

So, if we're being honest, he definitely did apologise. But let's pretend we didn't read that, right?
It was weasel words : ..."my ill considered policy..." Not "I'm really sorry, I should not have been deliberately trying to cheat"
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina

Noggs
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Noggs » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:21 pm

What Sarries did was simply wrong in that they gained their fame and fortune by cheating the system. The fact that the system was weak and allowed them to get away with it for so long is a separate matter. Contrition was minimal if at all and they were able to keep their ill gotten gains which seems to be against natural justice. Whilst PR was not able to remove their titles there was never any offer from the offenders to 'hand back the loot', perhaps to be expected.

Turning to their future I would like to see the club under a different ownership before being allowed back into the Premiership but clearly this is not going to happen. Second best would be for the Premiership to ring fence for two years (to hopefully get over the distortions caused by Covid 19) and then go back to the current system of promotion and relegation. Hopefully, a prolonged stay in the Championship will make most of their remaining star players go to pastures new making it more of a level playing field when they seek that promotion.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

Tiglon
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Tiglon » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:27 pm

Ah so now the claim that "he never apologised" has been exposed as a lie, we have to amend the problem, we move the goalposts. It just wasn't the right kind of apology? He didn't admit to enough? He didn't voluntarily incriminate himself? He didn't kick himself in the balls while he was down?

Breaking news - wealthy man fails to own up to quite as many wrongs as you would like. If that annoys you, if you detest that (FYI - detest is a synonym of hate), then you're only going to make your own life more miserable. Why do it to yourselves? Move on...

Tiglon
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Tiglon » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:28 pm

Noggs wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:21 pm
What Sarries did was simply wrong in that they gained their fame and fortune by cheating the system. The fact that the system was weak and allowed them to get away with it for so long is a separate matter. Contrition was minimal if at all and they were able to keep their ill gotten gains which seems to be against natural justice. Whilst PR was not able to remove their titles there was never any offer from the offenders to 'hand back the loot', perhaps to be expected.

Turning to their future I would like to see the club under a different ownership before being allowed back into the Premiership but clearly this is not going to happen. Second best would be for the Premiership to ring fence for two years (to hopefully get over the distortions caused by Covid 19) and then go back to the current system of promotion and relegation. Hopefully, a prolonged stay in the Championship will make most of their remaining star players go to pastures new making it more of a level playing field when they seek that promotion.
You're angry that Sarries broke the rules, and your solution is to break the rules in punishing them. You see the irony, don't you?

ourla
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by ourla » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:42 pm

Did all this lack of perspective, and hate/unforgiveness start with Trump or was Trump a result of it starting.
You're either in or you're out

Noggs
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Noggs » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:07 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:28 pm
Noggs wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:21 pm
What Sarries did was simply wrong in that they gained their fame and fortune by cheating the system. The fact that the system was weak and allowed them to get away with it for so long is a separate matter. Contrition was minimal if at all and they were able to keep their ill gotten gains which seems to be against natural justice. Whilst PR was not able to remove their titles there was never any offer from the offenders to 'hand back the loot', perhaps to be expected.

Turning to their future I would like to see the club under a different ownership before being allowed back into the Premiership but clearly this is not going to happen. Second best would be for the Premiership to ring fence for two years (to hopefully get over the distortions caused by Covid 19) and then go back to the current system of promotion and relegation. Hopefully, a prolonged stay in the Championship will make most of their remaining star players go to pastures new making it more of a level playing field when they seek that promotion.
You're angry that Sarries broke the rules, and your solution is to break the rules in punishing them. You see the irony, don't you?
Nowhere do I suggest breaking any rules :smt009
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

Tiglon
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Tiglon » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:12 pm

Noggs wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:07 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:28 pm
Noggs wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:21 pm
What Sarries did was simply wrong in that they gained their fame and fortune by cheating the system. The fact that the system was weak and allowed them to get away with it for so long is a separate matter. Contrition was minimal if at all and they were able to keep their ill gotten gains which seems to be against natural justice. Whilst PR was not able to remove their titles there was never any offer from the offenders to 'hand back the loot', perhaps to be expected.

Turning to their future I would like to see the club under a different ownership before being allowed back into the Premiership but clearly this is not going to happen. Second best would be for the Premiership to ring fence for two years (to hopefully get over the distortions caused by Covid 19) and then go back to the current system of promotion and relegation. Hopefully, a prolonged stay in the Championship will make most of their remaining star players go to pastures new making it more of a level playing field when they seek that promotion.
You're angry that Sarries broke the rules, and your solution is to break the rules in punishing them. You see the irony, don't you?
Nowhere do I suggest breaking any rules :smt009
Removing their titles?
Forcing them to remain in the Championship for 2 years?
Requiring them to change ownership before being allowed to rejoin the Premiership?
Requiring contrition?

Noggs
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Noggs » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:03 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:12 pm
Noggs wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:07 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:28 pm


You're angry that Sarries broke the rules, and your solution is to break the rules in punishing them. You see the irony, don't you?
Nowhere do I suggest breaking any rules :smt009
Removing their titles?
Forcing them to remain in the Championship for 2 years?
Requiring them to change ownership before being allowed to rejoin the Premiership?
Requiring contrition?
This is not 'breaking rules'. It is my wish for the changes I would like to see to the current rules.

Most people seem to agree that the rules as they stood and their administration were weak and allowed Sarries to do what they did. I don't wan't the same thing to happen again either with Sarries or any other club.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

Tiglon
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Tiglon » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:10 pm

Noggs wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:03 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:12 pm
Noggs wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:07 pm


Nowhere do I suggest breaking any rules :smt009
Removing their titles?
Forcing them to remain in the Championship for 2 years?
Requiring them to change ownership before being allowed to rejoin the Premiership?
Requiring contrition?
This is not 'breaking rules'. It is my wish for the changes I would like to see to the current rules.

Most people seem to agree that the rules as they stood and their administration were weak and allowed Sarries to do what they did. I don't wan't the same thing to happen again either with Sarries or any other club.
The rules didn't allow Sarries to do what they did - quite the opposite, the rules explicitly forbid it. Hence the punishment.

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