SARRIES FUTURE

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RagingBull
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by RagingBull » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:52 am

No cap in the championship

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:57 am

The stain is permanent now, any achievement they make now is presumed by default & cheating. (Its safe to say not by most of the media though...)
Saracens are Rugby Unions Justin Gatlin.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

TigerBoy1880
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by TigerBoy1880 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:36 am

I was thinking this morning that Sarries have been no loss to the Premiership whatsoever. In fact, I sort of forgot about them!

Traveller
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Traveller » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:06 am

TigerBoy1880 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:36 am
I was thinking this morning that Sarries have been no loss to the Premiership whatsoever. In fact, I sort of forgot about them!
Agreed. It's like one of those situations where you've been in a long meeting and no one realises that someone present has got really really bad body odour, until that person leaves the meeting, and someone decides to open the windows. Big intake of breath "so that's what fresh air smells like".

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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:09 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:52 am
No cap in the championship
No put if they want promotion they need to show they would have been under the Prem one. Given the number of internationals out the door that should be easy to do.

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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:39 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:09 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:52 am
No cap in the championship
No put if they want promotion they need to show they would have been under the Prem one. Given the number of internationals out the door that should be easy to do.
But will they be when they get back on the basis that the loan players return? Whilst those who set up the cheating are still involved, they can't be trusted.....a leopard doesn't change its spots etc....although a different member of the big cat family would be more appropriate.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

TigerFeetSteve
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:05 pm

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:39 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:09 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:52 am
No cap in the championship
No put if they want promotion they need to show they would have been under the Prem one. Given the number of internationals out the door that should be easy to do.
But will they be when they get back on the basis that the loan players return? Whilst those who set up the cheating are still involved, they can't be trusted.....a leopard doesn't change its spots etc....although a different member of the big cat family would be more appropriate.
I would suggest that the remaining players who have signed a new contract have had it front loaded so this season they're paid more (but stll without loan players are under the cap) then next season those players are paid a bit less to make room for the returning loanees
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

Tiglon
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Tiglon » Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:49 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:09 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:52 am
No cap in the championship
No put if they want promotion they need to show they would have been under the Prem one. Given the number of internationals out the door that should be easy to do.
This is a misconception. The promoted team does not have to show they were under the Premiership cap while in the Championship.

Cardiff Tig
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Cardiff Tig » Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:59 pm

They've also let Barritt, Wigglesworth, Williams, Kruis, Skelton and Singleton go at the very least. That's got to be vast majority of the £906k they were over the cap.

Tiglon
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Tiglon » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:07 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:59 pm
They've also let Barritt, Wigglesworth, Williams, Kruis, Skelton and Singleton go at the very least. That's got to be vast majority of the £906k they were over the cap.
I'd say that's definitely most of the 906k, notwithstanding any of them being marquee players. Williams, Kruis and Skelton must have been on at least £200k each?

Anyway, wasn't a very large part of the over-cap amount made up of image rights payments to Itoje, which all went into that seasons cap and therefore wouldn't be relevant next season?

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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Cardiff Tig » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:23 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:07 pm
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:59 pm
They've also let Barritt, Wigglesworth, Williams, Kruis, Skelton and Singleton go at the very least. That's got to be vast majority of the £906k they were over the cap.
I'd say that's definitely most of the 906k, notwithstanding any of them being marquee players. Williams, Kruis and Skelton must have been on at least £200k each?

Anyway, wasn't a very large part of the over-cap amount made up of image rights payments to Itoje, which all went into that seasons cap and therefore wouldn't be relevant next season?
Yep, but I think they effectively underpaid his salary by overpaying for image rights, so his salary as gone up I assume.

Tiglon
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Tiglon » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:24 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:23 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:07 pm
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:59 pm
They've also let Barritt, Wigglesworth, Williams, Kruis, Skelton and Singleton go at the very least. That's got to be vast majority of the £906k they were over the cap.
I'd say that's definitely most of the 906k, notwithstanding any of them being marquee players. Williams, Kruis and Skelton must have been on at least £200k each?

Anyway, wasn't a very large part of the over-cap amount made up of image rights payments to Itoje, which all went into that seasons cap and therefore wouldn't be relevant next season?
Yep, but I think they effectively underpaid his salary by overpaying for image rights, so his salary as gone up I assume.
Only if he has signed a new contract since then, which he may have done.

Scott1
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Scott1 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:32 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:49 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:09 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:52 am
No cap in the championship
No put if they want promotion they need to show they would have been under the Prem one. Given the number of internationals out the door that should be easy to do.
This is a misconception. The promoted team does not have to show they were under the Premiership cap while in the Championship.
Are you sure? I’m sure I read something that Sarries have to show 2 years of accounts under the cap if they are allowed to come back up 🤔

Scott1
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by Scott1 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:34 pm

Just found this,how convenient!

Many immediately interpreted this as a requirement that a promoted club must comply with the Regulations for two consecutive seasons in order to qualify for promotion. Of course, given that Saracens must be in breach this season (2019/20), this would mean they would need to comply with the Regulations for two seasons before being allowed to return to the Premiership. On such an analysis, the earliest Saracens could return to the Premiership would be September 2022.

However, I do not agree with this view. Firstly, Regulation 15 places no obligation upon any Championship club to comply with the “Senior Ceiling” (i.e. the salary cap). It simply requires them to provide certain documentation. A “Certification” may state that a club has or has not complied with the Senior Ceiling. This in itself does not amount to an obligation to comply with the cap.

sam16111986
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Re: SARRIES FUTURE

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:37 pm

TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:05 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:39 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:09 pm


No put if they want promotion they need to show they would have been under the Prem one. Given the number of internationals out the door that should be easy to do.
But will they be when they get back on the basis that the loan players return? Whilst those who set up the cheating are still involved, they can't be trusted.....a leopard doesn't change its spots etc....although a different member of the big cat family would be more appropriate.
I would suggest that the remaining players who have signed a new contract have had it front loaded so this season they're paid more (but stll without loan players are under the cap) then next season those players are paid a bit less to make room for the returning loanees
I believe the front or back loading of contracts is not allowed and that the salary is averaged over the years of the contract for salary cap purposes.

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