BigDan50 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:33 am
I think some posters on here would love to see Saracens cease to exist.
Is that such an unreasonable desire? They were caught in 2015 and let go (along with Bath who's results dropped off noticeably subsequently). They were then caught again before the beginning of this season for cheating the 3 seasons prior and were punished, you can argue, leniently as the investigation indicated two 35 point deductions but it was argued to "run them concurrently". Sarries initial response was to threaten legal action before "taking their medicine". What Sarries didn't do was anything to bring down their wage bill this season and when offered the option, "open your books or be relegated" they chose relegation, suggesting that there is yet more they want to hide. All through this a section of their fans have been ceaseless in their "poor us" whining and vitriolic in their accusations about other clubs and there's been noticeably little contrition at the top of their organisation.
For me I don't want them to fold, we've seen enough clubs fall victim to this phase of professional rugby that we are currently in (one that Sarries played no small part in creating) but this period of their existence will last a long time as a stain on the character of the club and won't start to fade until they show at least a little remorse for what they did rather than for being caught.
Well said.
I haven't been to the Allianz this season. Have they painted over the "integrity', 'humility' stuff on the walls and tackle pads. It would be a first step.
I am with you Noggs, their continued actions over the past years indicate there is no contrition but a continued cynical effort to keep going on in the same fashion,
. They give the game very bad stink.
No movement of key players either.No noise of players wishing to move. This may not occur until after 6N.
But whilst still at the club the club is still breaching.
wellstiger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:48 pm
No movement of key players either.No noise of players wishing to move. This may not occur until after 6N.
But whilst still at the club the club is still breaching.
Unless a significant number of players have accepted large, voluntary pay cuts in return for ......who knows what?
wellstiger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:48 pm
No movement of key players either.No noise of players wishing to move. This may not occur until after 6N.
But whilst still at the club the club is still breaching.
Unless a significant number of players have accepted large, voluntary pay cuts in return for ......who knows what?
A farm in South Africa. Oh! no they'd never do that.
wellstiger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:48 pm
No movement of key players either.No noise of players wishing to move. This may not occur until after 6N.
But whilst still at the club the club is still breaching.
For which they have been docked the extra 70 pts to ensure that they are relegated. So, as a result, they don't need to do anything for this season. If nothing else, it means that players don't have to take pay cuts at short notice.
wellstiger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:48 pm
No movement of key players either.No noise of players wishing to move. This may not occur until after 6N.
But whilst still at the club the club is still breaching.
For which they have been docked the extra 70 pts to ensure that they are relegated. So, as a result, they don't need to do anything for this season. If nothing else, it means that players don't have to take pay cuts at short notice.
Quite so, however if there's no movement to change this before they come back up....I'll be keeping my pitchfork dry and my torch sharpened
No, not that one!
Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...
I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?
As there has been no reduction in staff or no apparent reduction in the salary bill I expect that while they are winning the championship a movement will be started to increase the salary cap and then ring fence after they are promoted.
nasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:37 pm
As there has been no reduction in staff or no apparent reduction in the salary bill I expect that while they are winning the championship a movement will be started to increase the salary cap and then ring fence after they are promoted.
In the words of the late Paul Daniels "Close. Try again"
Liam Williams has gone. On the Transfers & Rumours non-Tigers thread, there are numerous mentions of players leaving/going out on loan. Can't remember if any have been confirmed officially though. Give the clubs and agents time.
nasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:37 pm
As there has been no reduction in staff or no apparent reduction in the salary bill I expect that while they are winning the championship a movement will be started to increase the salary cap and then ring fence after they are promoted.
In the words of the late Paul Daniels "Close. Try again"
Liam Williams has gone. On the Transfers & Rumours non-Tigers thread, there are numerous mentions of players leaving/going out on loan. Can't remember if any have been confirmed officially though. Give the clubs and agents time.
Liam Williams, Jack Singleton, Brad Barritt, Richard Wigglesworth, Tito Lamisatele, Will Skelton, George Kruis, Ben Spencer and Rhys Carre have all left.
Alex Goode, Ben Earl, Max Malins, Nick Isiekwe and Alex Lozowski are all out on loan.
All of those players are internationals. One would assume then that is a lot salary reduction yet they'll still walk the Championship and probably whatever little cup competition they make up to play before it starts.
BigDan50 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:33 am
I think some posters on here would love to see Saracens cease to exist.
Is that such an unreasonable desire? They were caught in 2015 and let go (along with Bath who's results dropped off noticeably subsequently). They were then caught again before the beginning of this season for cheating the 3 seasons prior and were punished, you can argue, leniently as the investigation indicated two 35 point deductions but it was argued to "run them concurrently". Sarries initial response was to threaten legal action before "taking their medicine". What Sarries didn't do was anything to bring down their wage bill this season and when offered the option, "open your books or be relegated" they chose relegation, suggesting that there is yet more they want to hide. All through this a section of their fans have been ceaseless in their "poor us" whining and vitriolic in their accusations about other clubs and there's been noticeably little contrition at the top of their organisation.
For me I don't want them to fold, we've seen enough clubs fall victim to this phase of professional rugby that we are currently in (one that Sarries played no small part in creating) but this period of their existence will last a long time as a stain on the character of the club and won't start to fade until they show at least a little remorse for what they did rather than for being caught.
Well said.
I haven't been to the Allianz this season. Have they painted over the "integrity', 'humility' stuff on the walls and tackle pads. It would be a first step.
Furthermore - when deciding on the best course of inaction post investigation obfuscation; that man of humility and the voice of integrity Nigel Wrong Wray decided the very, very, very best person to return to oversee the clean up was - Edward Griffiths - his consigliere when the scam was set up in the first place. He who had done a runner to SA (with a bulging suitcase), hours before the first expose in 2015. The Day of the Griffid lasted for, a matter of days because the outcry from the other clubs who were so incensed. Whereupon in an act of admirable self-immolation and in order to to bolster the club's 'reputation', El Presidente Wray resigned from the board, and cleansed it - by replacing himself - with - you can't make it up - Ivanka and Jared Wray. And they are the people to give the Saracens house the hosing required: please. As they say on all the best detective series - follow the money.
They may have shed/loaned out a number of players.
However not too many of their front line line England stars (aside from Earle) have gone.
What’s the salary cap for this season in the Championship? Billy, Macko, Farrell, George, Itoje and Daly must go a long way to swallowing the Premiership cap! Or have the house purchase schemes/companies written off the future payments so they all went into 19/20 accounts so the contracts were front loaded.
Any ideas that the resignation of a sugar daddy from direct involvement at board level is unconvincing and likely that he will remain puppeteer, pulling strings out of the limelight. It might make it easier for salary cap circumvention.
If he no longer has a direct link to the club he will be free to enter business arrangements with players directly with it being harder to argue they form part of the players salary.
No doubt Sarries will be back up and have a squad that will be the envy of others.
