Captaincy

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Jimmy Skitz
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Captaincy

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:13 pm

There seems to be a growing consensus on here, at first glance at least, that Tom Youngs shouldn't be captain now, so my question is simple, who would you have be captain?

Personally I do not think it should be an England player that will be unavailable for large chunks of the season so that rules out George Ford for the full time position. Obviously it should go to someone likely to play whenever fit so for me the obvious choice would be Dan Cole, stalwart of the club, certain starter and his England days seem to be over due to his age. Rarely see him lose his head and comes across as very articulate in interviews.

JP14
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Re: Captaincy

Post by JP14 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:18 pm

From my perspective, Youngs should never have been Captain in the first place.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Mark62
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Re: Captaincy

Post by Mark62 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:24 pm

If Youngs is banned for the Sale game I’d like to see Dan Cole given the captaincy.
Long term I’d like to see someone younger given the captaincy who can grow with the role.
Not sure who that would be, White and Reffell have had experience at u20 level but are either of them nailed on as a starter.

The use of co captains seems to be on the increase, so maybe Ford when he is available and Liebenberg when he’s not. I believe he skippered the junior Boks

kpj tiger
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Re: Captaincy

Post by kpj tiger » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:27 pm

If it weren't TY then Hanro Leibenberg, Tommy Reffell and Ben White seem to have been identified as leaders at early ages, Taufua is potentially another option but realistically if its not TY it will be Ford

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: Captaincy

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:31 pm

Taufua was skipper for Tasman I believe.

OTY just isn't a captain, picking him over Slater was a large piece of the jigsaw of daft decisions over recent years. Top bloke & an inspiration Youngs, but not a skipper.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

mol2
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Re: Captaincy

Post by mol2 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:41 pm

Taufua.
Agree re England players not being there enough.

JP14
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Re: Captaincy

Post by JP14 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:54 pm

White will start and if Youngs is banned could be captain as he has been before, but my candidate will be Cole.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

longlivethecrumbie
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Re: Captaincy

Post by longlivethecrumbie » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:54 pm

Listening on the TV coverage yesterday you could hear over the ref mic how badly Tom communicates with the ref. He's very abrasive and confrontational and that's only going to go one way with getting/keeping the ref onside.

Cardiff Tig
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Re: Captaincy

Post by Cardiff Tig » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:03 pm

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:31 pm
Taufua was skipper for Tasman I believe.

OTY just isn't a captain, picking him over Slater was a large piece of the jigsaw of daft decisions over recent years. Top bloke & an inspiration Youngs, but not a skipper.
I'm not sure anybody on here can judge if TY should be skipper. It's down to the respect that he commands of the players and nothing else. I do agree he needs to work on his management of the ref though!

I remember when everyone used to complain about Borthwick as a captain, but he captained every team he was part of.

Coleshillad
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Re: Captaincy

Post by Coleshillad » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:38 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:03 pm

I remember when everyone used to complain about Borthwick as a captain, but he captained every team he was part of.
Hopefully we won't have to wait too long. He's the man who has got to make that decision, but in the meantime, an 'old head' would be good in the short term.....Dan's the man.

Freebird
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Re: Captaincy

Post by Freebird » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:21 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:03 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:31 pm
Taufua was skipper for Tasman I believe.

OTY just isn't a captain, picking him over Slater was a large piece of the jigsaw of daft decisions over recent years. Top bloke & an inspiration Youngs, but not a skipper.
I'm not sure anybody on here can judge if TY should be skipper. It's down to the respect that he commands of the players and nothing else. I do agree he needs to work on his management of the ref though!

I remember when everyone used to complain about Borthwick as a captain, but he captained every team he was part of.
It is also not that long ago that Ed Slater was on TV talking up Tom Youngs' credentials as a captain. But then what what would he know compared to a supposed consensus on a messageboard.

Mark62
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Re: Captaincy

Post by Mark62 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:28 pm

Freebird wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:21 pm
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:03 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:31 pm
Taufua was skipper for Tasman I believe.

OTY just isn't a captain, picking him over Slater was a large piece of the jigsaw of daft decisions over recent years. Top bloke & an inspiration Youngs, but not a skipper.
I'm not sure anybody on here can judge if TY should be skipper. It's down to the respect that he commands of the players and nothing else. I do agree he needs to work on his management of the ref though!

I remember when everyone used to complain about Borthwick as a captain, but he captained every team he was part of.
It is also not that long ago that Ed Slater was on TV talking up Tom Youngs' credentials as a captain. But then what what would he know compared to a supposed consensus on a messageboard.
You make a fair point. IMO Tom makes an excellent cub captain in terms of rallying the troops and pulling everyone in the same direction, his weaker side is on the pitch in terms of his tactical acumen and communication with match officials

Freebird
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Re: Captaincy

Post by Freebird » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:08 pm

Mark62 wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:28 pm
Freebird wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:21 pm
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:03 pm


I'm not sure anybody on here can judge if TY should be skipper. It's down to the respect that he commands of the players and nothing else. I do agree he needs to work on his management of the ref though!

I remember when everyone used to complain about Borthwick as a captain, but he captained every team he was part of.
It is also not that long ago that Ed Slater was on TV talking up Tom Youngs' credentials as a captain. But then what what would he know compared to a supposed consensus on a messageboard.
You make a fair point. IMO Tom makes an excellent cub captain in terms of rallying the troops and pulling everyone in the same direction, his weaker side is on the pitch in terms of his tactical acumen and communication with match officials
The whole issue of "communication with match officials" is an interesting one because what we are really saying is persuading the match officials into favouring our own team; therefore, if, through a somewhat biased lens, we feel that we are not getting the rub of the green, one of the easy options is to blame the captain for not getting in the referee's ear. That said there are some captains that do have that skill but those who can do it on a consistent basis are few are far between. There are many more who sometimes achieve it ( Owen Farrell v Australia a year or two ago) but at other times don't. Then there are some who do well a lot of the time but then get it wrong on occasion on a spectacular scale (i.e. Dylan Hartley).

Hot_Charlie
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Re: Captaincy

Post by Hot_Charlie » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:01 am

Internationals or not, your best leader is skipper. So what if you lose him for some matches.

So, hopefully Ford from next season (with Borthwick arriving I think this even more likely), with maybe White as his vice-Captain, as he seems well respected and to have the necessary character to do the job and isn’t in the international picture yet.

wellstiger
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Re: Captaincy

Post by wellstiger » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:15 am

White is a captain in the making. However he has to measure his over enthusiasm a little.
For me Ford as Club captain . Cole as vice and White in waiting.
However I think Bothwick will have his own idea to get his message across.

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