LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

[RagingBull]

Really BFG is right.
With Costelow Tigers should've signed him for longer and had it ironclad.

If Costelow refuses well Tigers would've know right away his intention was never really about Tigers.
If the Welsh clubs really wanted him we could've gotten some money.
and if he was happy we would've had him for 5 seasons.

If he was on a 1 year contract, then Tigers really didn't try hard enough or should've said by a year ago.

I do like the look of Henry and he's a interesting signing.

I don't ever think it was a case of him or Reid though.

[Mark62]

Really BFG is right.
With Costelow Tigers should've signed him for longer and had it ironclad.

If Costelow refuses well Tigers would've know right away his intention was never really about Tigers.
If the Welsh clubs really wanted him we could've gotten some money.
and if he was happy we would've had him for 5 seasons.

If he was on a 1 year contract, then Tigers really didn't try hard enough or should've said by a year ago.

I do like the look of Henry and he's a interesting signing.

I don't ever think it was a case of him or Reid though.

I take your point but given that he has been talked about so highly for the last couple of years would he have realistically signed a 5 year deal tying himself to the club and ending his international ambitions until his mid 20s.
I do agree however that Tigers have been used as a means to an end, whether knowingly or not, to further his career, and I would imagine that the question will be asked closely of any future recruits

[RagingBull]

Really BFG is right.
With Costelow Tigers should've signed him for longer and had it ironclad.

If Costelow refuses well Tigers would've know right away his intention was never really about Tigers.
If the Welsh clubs really wanted him we could've gotten some money.
and if he was happy we would've had him for 5 seasons.

If he was on a 1 year contract, then Tigers really didn't try hard enough or should've said by a year ago.

I do like the look of Henry and he's a interesting signing.

I don't ever think it was a case of him or Reid though.

I take your point but given that he has been talked about so highly for the last couple of years would he have realistically signed a 5 year deal tying himself to the club and ending his international ambitions until his mid 20s.
I do agree however that Tigers have been used as a means to an end, whether knowingly or not, to further his career, and I would imagine that the question will be asked closely of any future recruits

That's not true though. The welsh rules only apply once capped and current deal ends.

[DeadlyDunc]

Actually not true on recent performances, and he has not been handicapped by having so many players away on England duty this season.

How recent? the past few matches? this past season? last season? I'd suggest the side that has scored more and conceded less would be a good indicator. Give Ackermann what Murphy has had to field with, and i'm confident he would be much further up the table than sitting second from the bottom - two years running!

Absolutely agree with this!

I actually agree with this too, I think Ackermann is a better coach than Murphy - more experienced in the role etc.

I know people don't like it because Murphy was appointed as Head Coach which is a fair comment but his work and quality seems to be on the more long term strategy and suited to the DoR role he is going to have when Borthwick joins as HC.

I don't know anything about behind the scenes but all the stuff the Club have done for getting on for 18 months seems to have been putting in place the building blocks for long term with Borthwick identified as HC a long time ago with Murphy as DoR but having to fill the HC role in the short term.

If so (and i've said the above for a fair while) then the Board/Club deserves some credit for sticking to a mid-long term plan whilst accepting that performances might not be great in the short term.

This is borne out by the interviews with the newer signings, older players , Pat Howard etc all speaking along these lines. I think the players (and Club) appreciate there is a plan as its been a while since there has been some level of consistency in strategy as we leapt from Cockers, Burke to Hanson & Mauger, to MOC, to Blake and Bakewell etc etc

I could be completely wrong but that is my take on it and the Club will be better off in the mid-long term as a result and I'm backing GM as DoR as things seem to have some semblence of a plan attached to them and have done for a while.

[BFG]

But you haven’t answered the question. Do you know that the WRU did not contact Sam and say it would hamper his chances of playing for Wales if he wasn’t playing in Wales, because if they did it wouldn’t matter what Tigers did.
It’s not rocket science

He who gets in first!

Usual when you can’t provide a logical answer. The chance of being capped trumps everything.
And you haven’t answered the point about Zach Henry, a proven play maker yet

Zach Henry is another new player, he might be a good player and we will see, but once again continuity will not be present.
Continuity is very important.
People blame coaching but constant mass changing of playing staff doesn't help and particularly in key positions.
On Costelow, Leicester clearly did not do it's best to look most attractive, given that Reid was preferred whilst Costelow was playing at Ampthill on a contract that was coming to an end!

[BFG]

Actually not true on recent performances, and he has not been handicapped by having so many players away on England duty this season.

How recent? the past few matches? this past season? last season? I'd suggest the side that has scored more and conceded less would be a good indicator. Give Ackermann what Murphy has had to field with, and i'm confident he would be much further up the table than sitting second from the bottom - two years running!

Absolutely agree with this!

I thought that Ackermann was made to look better by Thorley's rise, since which time with Thorley being less of a surprise package to opposition and picking up the odd injury Gloucester have struggled with a very strong looking squad of players.

[Mark62]

Really BFG is right.
With Costelow Tigers should've signed him for longer and had it ironclad.

If Costelow refuses well Tigers would've know right away his intention was never really about Tigers.
If the Welsh clubs really wanted him we could've gotten some money.
and if he was happy we would've had him for 5 seasons.

If he was on a 1 year contract, then Tigers really didn't try hard enough or should've said by a year ago.

I do like the look of Henry and he's a interesting signing.

I don't ever think it was a case of him or Reid though.

I take your point but given that he has been talked about so highly for the last couple of years would he have realistically signed a 5 year deal tying himself to the club and ending his international ambitions until his mid 20s.
I do agree however that Tigers have been used as a means to an end, whether knowingly or not, to further his career, and I would imagine that the question will be asked closely of any future recruits

That's not true though. The welsh rules only apply once capped and current deal ends.

But they are highly unlikely to pick him if he is on a 5 year deal with Leicester than if he was playing for say Scarlets.

Anyway he’s made his decision now and as I say I would imagine the academy will be very wary of being caught out again

[Mark62]

How recent? the past few matches? this past season? last season? I'd suggest the side that has scored more and conceded less would be a good indicator. Give Ackermann what Murphy has had to field with, and i'm confident he would be much further up the table than sitting second from the bottom - two years running!

Absolutely agree with this!

I thought that Ackermann was made to look better by Thorley's rise, since which time with Thorley being less of a surprise package to opposition and picking up the odd injury Gloucester have struggled with a very strong looking squad of players.

IMO Gloucester have been hampered by Heinz England call up and over reliance on Cipriani.

[sam16111986]

He who gets in first!

Usual when you can’t provide a logical answer. The chance of being capped trumps everything.
And you haven’t answered the point about Zach Henry, a proven play maker yet

Zach Henry is another new player, he might be a good player and we will see, but once again continuity will not be present.
Continuity is very important.
People blame coaching but constant mass changing of playing staff doesn't help and particularly in key positions.
On Costelow, Leicester clearly did not do it's best to look most attractive, given that Reid was preferred whilst Costelow was playing at Ampthill on a contract that was coming to an end!

Murphy would have been slaughtered on here if he'd selected Costelow at 10 at the start of the season instead of Reid. The comments would have been "what's the point in signing the former Irish international..." and "shirt should be earned" . I suspect some "throwing the young lad to the lions" and "no thought for development" would have also followed. Probably some of it by you.

One of the best bits from Murphy this season has been the development plan he's put into place for each development squad player. Lots have gone out on loan to the Championship or lower leagues to build themselves up. Some European outings alongside the A league to further gain experience. It was a well thought out development plan. Costelow got given more exposure than others he graduated the academy with in light of his undoubted ability. If he didn't like the fact the club were prepared to put in a development path to the first team for him than he can try and jump the queue over in Wales.

Having said all that, long term contracts out of the academy for our best and brightest should be the norm. Three year deals to take them up to 21. A one year deal was not a good idea. Unless of course it's the only thing Costelow would sign in which case that could have been a reason he wasn't advanced even quicker on his development plan.

[jgriffin]

Undoubtedly Costelow got tapped up by the WRU. That is what they do. His one hope of getting anywhere is Glenn Delaney, otherwise it is quite possible he would rusticate in the manner of so many Welsh junior wannabees in Pro14.
Zach Henry is one of those players, like Holmes and Hamilton maybe, who you will be unsure of: will their undoubted talent flourish in the Prem or will it be 'what happened to' by mid-season?

[TigerBoy1880]

Genge, Cole, Lavanini, taufau, white, Youngs, Ford, Manu, May, TV would for most.

Tuilagi another

Does he have a twin?

If there are that many players that would be signed by a top 4 team why are Leicester in 11th for the second season running?

Oh yeah! Missed that!

5 of those names reached a World Cup Final as well.

Why are we 11th for the second season running?I won’t answer as I’m sure you’re going to tell me

Here’s a question for you- If we don’t have any players that are top 4 quality, why do people expect us to be in the top 4?

[TigerBoy1880]

Some of the comments on here make me laugh. There’s quite a few people who make it sound like they know how every detail on how our club and pro rugby works. I’d like to take a look at their CV, I really would!

[Scott1]

Some of the comments on here make me laugh. There’s quite a few people who make it sound like they know how every detail on how our club and pro rugby works. I’d like to take a look at their CV, I really would!

It's just our opinion "Ellis"

[TigerBoy1880]

Some of the comments on here make me laugh. There’s quite a few people who make it sound like they know how every detail on how our club and pro rugby works. I’d like to take a look at their CV, I really would!

It's just our opinion "Ellis"

Absolutely it is. However, the way people word certain things makes it sound like they think they know. Looks at the comments on Costellow for example.

You’ve said Ellis a few times now. I have explained in the private message you sent me that you’ve mixed them up with me

[ABClub]

Lay of the land:

1.Genge, Bateman
2.Mamukashvili, Youngs, Kerr, Clare
3.Cole, Leatigaga, Heyes
4.Lavanini, Wells
5.Green
6.Liebenberg, Lewis
7.Taufau, Reffell
8.Brink, Coghlan

9.Youngs, White, Simmons
10.Ford, Hardwick, Henry

11.Nadolo, Aspland-Robinson
12.Eastmond, Reid
13.Tuilagi, Taute
14.Holmes, Olowofela
15.Veainu, Worth

Older dev squad members: Lines, Dimen, Martin, Jordan, Gough, Lavin, Smith, JvP, Browning, Steward

Gigena and Batley re-signing would fill two obvious holes in terms of squad depth.

Re-signing May and bringing a second row in to partner Lavanini are the big holes left in the starting XV. There's a gap in the back row as well with Kala and Thompson out, only Brink coming in so far.