RFU halves Championship funding.

[Traveller]

I’m sure someone should ask Mr Cohen the club’s views on this at the open forum, he is there for off-the-field matters.

I am reasonably confident Mr 'Accountability' Cohen's will reply, "It's not an area I am responsible for.....can I now have my very large pay cheque please. My word did we really come 11th last year and escape relegation this year only because another club had 6 zillion points deducted. What short memories punters have.."

Bit unfair Traveller, considering Tigers links with Nottingham, Coventry and Bedford (I think?) perhaps we should be concerned by the Old Farts’ cull.

Agreed. I was tired.

[Coleshillad]

Cardiff Tig you seem to be only focusing on international players but it's not just about international players.
It is about club rugby.
Just a few examples from the best current club side in England.
Harry Williams played for Nottingham and Jersey Reds where he was scouted by Exeter.
Luke Cowan-Dickie played for Plymouth Albion.
Sam Simmonds played for Plymouth Albion and Cornish Pirates.
Gareth Steenson played for Rotheram Titans and Cornish Pirates.
Jack Yeandle played for Doncaster Knights.
Henry Slade played for Plymouth Albion.
Jack Nowell played for Redruth, Plymouth Albion and Cornish Pirates.
Max Bodilly played for Redruth and Cornish Pirates.
Joe Simmonds played for Taunton and Plymouth Albion.
Stu Townsend played for Taunton and Cornish Pirates.
Will Witty played for Blaydon.

This makes the point of having a strong Championship perfectly. There must be a link between the amateur and professional game.

[westwinds31]

Sadly, it's about to be blown apart and won't exist in a few years time.

[ourla]

The $64m question is what targets haven't they met?

Secondary being is this is the correct response?

Not sure you can answer the second before the first....

[Dangerous4]

If it happens, it will be more than disgraceful.

[JP14]

I have heard whispers that the Championship teams could split with the RFU and join the Welsh Premiership.

[johnthegriff]

The fault is that there has been insufficient money in the Championship, so if it has failed to meet " targets " the fault is not necessarily theirs. English rugby needs a tier below the Premiership the majority of clubs in that league should be capable of coming up if the opportunity arises and relegation to that league should not be devastating for the team going down. To achiev this there must be a TV deal, greater exposure to teams in the lower league will bring in money men and increase sponsorship revenue, funding from the RFU to top up necessary income will be necessary but should not be the major source of funding.
I would actually take it further, I would have a two conference Championship based on location to cut down on travelling expenses, possibly with a play off for promotion.
In this country we do not have the municipal stadiums common in France but we do have a lot of decent soccer grounds that are likely to agree to sharing in exchange for extra income, rugby teams likely to qualify for promotion should be given time to get outline plans in place so their elevation will not be denied due to ground standards. I would actually be in favour of mirroring the French system of a 14 team top level with a two up two down system,

[BFG]

The fault is that there has been insufficient money in the Championship, so if it has failed to meet " targets " the fault is not necessarily theirs. English rugby needs a tier below the Premiership the majority of clubs in that league should be capable of coming up if the opportunity arises and relegation to that league should not be devastating for the team going down. To achiev this there must be a TV deal, greater exposure to teams in the lower league will bring in money men and increase sponsorship revenue, funding from the RFU to top up necessary income will be necessary but should not be the major source of funding.
I would actually take it further, I would have a two conference Championship based on location to cut down on travelling expenses, possibly with a play off for promotion.
In this country we do not have the municipal stadiums common in France but we do have a lot of decent soccer grounds that are likely to agree to sharing in exchange for extra income, rugby teams likely to qualify for promotion should be given time to get outline plans in place so their elevation will not be denied due to ground standards. I would actually be in favour of mirroring the French system of a 14 team top level with a two up two down system,

I think you hit a large nail in the head here.
Increasing the integration between the leagues is a way to bring them closer.
If we look at French rugby or even soccer as an example their two or three up and down usually leads to some struggling with promotion and some coping well, occasionally all can struggle but not always.
These rumoured RFU young player identification "targets" are a bit of a catch 22 for Championship clubs as those aspiring Championship clubs can only truly attempt to meet required young player identification "targets" when they can attract the young players in the same way that Premiership clubs can, and the biggest attraction is the potential to play in the top league so all the best early developers will naturally go to the Premiership clubs.
The whole process goes against later developers and they are lost.
Why would a potential later developer stay in rugby or early developer go to a Championship club when there is next to no chance of promotion and they can go and earn more working in a supermarket!
These later developers are often smaller but more talented players as youths some of which often grow later.
The RFU is massively overplaying the age grade rugby hand with all the eggs in one basket in my opinion.
It's why English rugby is bosh rugby dominated with very poor skill levels.
The RFU aren't making sense on this issue.

[jgriffin]

BFG we've been there so many times before. The whole RFU set-up has been self-defeating for decades, and the rise of talent from outside the exclusive nurseries, often showcased in the Championship, is only the tip of the talent base available. England should be the best team in the world by a country mile; the fact it isn't and hardly ever has been is down to the RFU IMHO.

[westwinds31]

Some mention of the A League/Prem Shield here. A soulless, pointless “tournament” where a mish-mash of players get together having had a couple of training sessions. First teamers coming back from injury and playing at 75% to get the tick in the box, Senior Academy lads who have no chance of first team action, loan players who have learned the calls on the coach to the game and crowds of 100 people and a dog.

Having said all that, how will Academy players get game time ? The Championship is full of really good players who were discarded due to lack of money at the top level within the squad, or just weren’t fancied by a particular coach. With funding cut the quality will surely get worse and the gap will grow. No value then of playing at a level that is several rungs down the ladder. Will there be more money for Prem clubs and bigger squads ? A lot of players then just training and getting no valuable match experience.

Championship clubs will have potentially smaller squads with a lot of University dual registered players who cost very little - just a bursary or scholarship maybe. Worrying times.

[BFG]

BFG we've been there so many times before. The whole RFU set-up has been self-defeating for decades, and the rise of talent from outside the exclusive nurseries, often showcased in the Championship, is only the tip of the talent base available. England should be the best team in the world by a country mile; the fact it isn't and hardly ever has been is down to the RFU IMHO.

Yes it's a great shame that most can see it and those who control it can't, or don't want to!

[Hot_Charlie]

The fault is that there has been insufficient money in the Championship, so if it has failed to meet " targets " the fault is not necessarily theirs. English rugby needs a tier below the Premiership the majority of clubs in that league should be capable of coming up if the opportunity arises and relegation to that league should not be devastating for the team going down. To achiev this there must be a TV deal, greater exposure to teams in the lower league will bring in money men and increase sponsorship revenue, funding from the RFU to top up necessary income will be necessary but should not be the major source of funding.

And the reality (and that - reality - is an important word), to get that TV deal and sponsorship, people need to be interested in the product. The evidence is that, sadly, they aren’t. The Premiership clubs can’t even make money, so what hope for a relatively poorly supported 2nd tier?

The best years are sadly long past. BT Sport buying the rights to Premiership rugby was probably a fairly big nail in the coffin; how many of us subscribed to Sky to watch the Prem and would occasionally watch the Chanpionship matches when they were on? How many rugby fans cancelled their Sky subscription with the move to BT Sport? I did.

Purely blaming the RFU now when the “product” arguably been in decline ever since Exeter were promoted (look at Nottingham, ambitious, once playing their home games at Meadow Lane); now it is the old locking the gate after the horse has bolted scenario.

[BFG]

The fault is that there has been insufficient money in the Championship, so if it has failed to meet " targets " the fault is not necessarily theirs. English rugby needs a tier below the Premiership the majority of clubs in that league should be capable of coming up if the opportunity arises and relegation to that league should not be devastating for the team going down. To achiev this there must be a TV deal, greater exposure to teams in the lower league will bring in money men and increase sponsorship revenue, funding from the RFU to top up necessary income will be necessary but should not be the major source of funding.

And the reality (and that - reality - is an important word), to get that TV deal and sponsorship, people need to be interested in the product. The evidence is that, sadly, they aren’t. The Premiership clubs can’t even make money, so what hope for a relatively poorly supported 2nd tier?

The best years are sadly long past. BT Sport buying the rights to Premiership rugby was probably a fairly big nail in the coffin; how many of us subscribed to Sky to watch the Prem and would occasionally watch the Chanpionship matches when they were on? How many rugby fans cancelled their Sky subscription with the move to BT Sport? I did.

Purely blaming the RFU now when the “product” arguably been in decline ever since Exeter were promoted (look at Nottingham, ambitious, once playing their home games at Meadow Lane); now it is the old locking the gate after the horse has bolted scenario.

At £25k per player per game for England when they are already being paid very well by a club I reckon there is plenty of money going somewhere!

[Hot_Charlie]

The fault is that there has been insufficient money in the Championship, so if it has failed to meet " targets " the fault is not necessarily theirs. English rugby needs a tier below the Premiership the majority of clubs in that league should be capable of coming up if the opportunity arises and relegation to that league should not be devastating for the team going down. To achiev this there must be a TV deal, greater exposure to teams in the lower league will bring in money men and increase sponsorship revenue, funding from the RFU to top up necessary income will be necessary but should not be the major source of funding.

And the reality (and that - reality - is an important word), to get that TV deal and sponsorship, people need to be interested in the product. The evidence is that, sadly, they aren’t. The Premiership clubs can’t even make money, so what hope for a relatively poorly supported 2nd tier?

The best years are sadly long past. BT Sport buying the rights to Premiership rugby was probably a fairly big nail in the coffin; how many of us subscribed to Sky to watch the Prem and would occasionally watch the Chanpionship matches when they were on? How many rugby fans cancelled their Sky subscription with the move to BT Sport? I did.

Purely blaming the RFU now when the “product” arguably been in decline ever since Exeter were promoted (look at Nottingham, ambitious, once playing their home games at Meadow Lane); now it is the old locking the gate after the horse has bolted scenario.

At £25k per player per game for England when they are already being paid very well by a club I reckon there is plenty of money going somewhere!

There is, but that’s the going rate for an international rugby player after 25 years of professional rugby. We might not like it, but again it’s the reality and what keeps England players playing in England. When you do the maths it’s not a “game changing” sum that could go to the Championship. Cut the individual England match fee by 60% per player and you still might still struggle to find an extra £500k for each club. That won’t turn it around from the dysfunctional league it is now.

[BFG]

And the reality (and that - reality - is an important word), to get that TV deal and sponsorship, people need to be interested in the product. The evidence is that, sadly, they aren’t. The Premiership clubs can’t even make money, so what hope for a relatively poorly supported 2nd tier?

The best years are sadly long past. BT Sport buying the rights to Premiership rugby was probably a fairly big nail in the coffin; how many of us subscribed to Sky to watch the Prem and would occasionally watch the Chanpionship matches when they were on? How many rugby fans cancelled their Sky subscription with the move to BT Sport? I did.

Purely blaming the RFU now when the “product” arguably been in decline ever since Exeter were promoted (look at Nottingham, ambitious, once playing their home games at Meadow Lane); now it is the old locking the gate after the horse has bolted scenario.

At £25k per player per game for England when they are already being paid very well by a club I reckon there is plenty of money going somewhere!

There is, but that’s the going rate for an international rugby player after 25 years of professional rugby. We might not like it, but again it’s the reality and what keeps England players playing in England. When you do the maths it’s not a “game changing” sum that could go to the Championship. Cut the individual England match fee by 60% per player and you still might still struggle to find an extra £500k for each club. That won’t turn it around from the dysfunctional league it is now.

My maths isn't the best in the world but £25k per player per game for 23 players comes out at £575k per match.
I'm assuming £25k is if they win and will assume it's £20k if they don't win.
This is for players who already get paid extremely well by their clubs.
So in 2019 (World Cup year) they played 15 matches with 11 wins, 1 draw and 3 losses so a total of about £8,165,000.
In 2018 they played 12 matches, 6 wins and 6 losses so about £6,210,000.
If the Championship funding is cut by about £200k per club then that's £2,400,000 over all 12 clubs.
England players are being overpaid.
The match fee should be much smaller in fact when they are already the top paid club players I would suggest that the match fee should be no more than £5k per match win lose or draw.
In 2018 £5k per match would've equated to about £1,380,000 in match fees leaving £4,830,000 extra for the RFU to invest into the professional and community game.
In 2019 £5k per match would've equated to about £1,725,000 in match fees leaving £6,440,000 extra the RFU to invest.
The pay gap between England players, the rest, and the supporter base has grown way out of proportion and this is why they are starting to get so much stick when they don't perform to the inflated levels that are now being expected due to the massively overinflated pay.