RFU halves Championship funding.

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jgriffin
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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by jgriffin » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:56 am

It seems to me symptomatic of England in particular that such narrow-minded decisions are taken by 'top business leader(s)' as well as politicians. It's either cuts or inadequate funding while those at the top table shovel money, usually into their off-shore accounts - viz the national £1bn for cycleways and footpaths, when Manchester's cycleways alone have been costed at £1.2bn. It is as though the idea of investing in the world most people live in, for a future advantage, has passed these folk by.
My suspicion is that RFU, PRL, CVC and TV are looking at super-leagues and franchises, ring-fenced, as the way forward, on the Pro14 model.
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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by nasher » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:36 am

Agreed! Cash rules sod the game itself

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by Cardiff Tig » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:25 pm

Coleshillad wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:30 am
strawclearer wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:42 pm
"...we do not believe it [the Championship] is the primary place where Premiership and England players are discovered and developed.” RFU statement.

Ok - I'll bite - which is the "primary place" then? Pacific Islands? South Africa?
A good bite, and spot on. Irreparable. Narrow-minded. Lacking in vision. Can't see the wood for the trees etc etc etc.
The premiership clubs' academies are where they are discovered and developed. Yes, some players may get the odd game as a dual registered player with a championship club but when was the last time someone came up from a championship club?

The main issue here is that the current championship is broken. You either get the yo-yo of premiership clubs or a club effectively buys the league by spending ridiculous amounts compared to the other teams (Ealing?). I have no problem with the RFU realising that this isn't value for money. I have a big issue that this is being done to cut costs rather than redistribute the money to other grassroots areas that need it funding.

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by BFG » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:18 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:25 pm
Coleshillad wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:30 am
strawclearer wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:42 pm
"...we do not believe it [the Championship] is the primary place where Premiership and England players are discovered and developed.” RFU statement.

Ok - I'll bite - which is the "primary place" then? Pacific Islands? South Africa?
A good bite, and spot on. Irreparable. Narrow-minded. Lacking in vision. Can't see the wood for the trees etc etc etc.
The premiership clubs' academies are where they are discovered and developed. Yes, some players may get the odd game as a dual registered player with a championship club but when was the last time someone came up from a championship club?

The main issue here is that the current championship is broken. You either get the yo-yo of premiership clubs or a club effectively buys the league by spending ridiculous amounts compared to the other teams (Ealing?). I have no problem with the RFU realising that this isn't value for money. I have a big issue that this is being done to cut costs rather than redistribute the money to other grassroots areas that need it funding.
Cardiff Tig the Championship is a step on the ladder that helps to bridge those gaps between the Premiership/Championship/National League/Academy rugby and it's not just about playing alone as it's also about personal development.
The A League is not competitive enough, it's packed with injury returnees and loan players so the playing continuity is of a very poor standard.
I watched an A League match recently and it was an absolutely shocking standard of rugby, so shocking that other than fitness I'd place it below the National Leagues.
Also winning/losing doesn't matter so it's useless as a personal development tool for young players who need to be exposed to the competitive mens game.
So many Premiership players have spent time playing in the Championship, what for?
If the Championship is reduced to amateur status, which is a very real threat, then that professional development option is gone.
Those who are too strong for the National Leagues but not wise enough for Premiership rugby or vice versa will have nowhere suitable to develop and it's likely that the standard across all rugby could suffer as a result.
We could also potentially see more serious injuries to players who have not been tested at a slightly lesser level.

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by Mr Bean » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:09 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:25 pm
Coleshillad wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:30 am
strawclearer wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:42 pm
"...we do not believe it [the Championship] is the primary place where Premiership and England players are discovered and developed.” RFU statement.

Ok - I'll bite - which is the "primary place" then? Pacific Islands? South Africa?
A good bite, and spot on. Irreparable. Narrow-minded. Lacking in vision. Can't see the wood for the trees etc etc etc.
The premiership clubs' academies are where they are discovered and developed. Yes, some players may get the odd game as a dual registered player with a championship club but when was the last time someone came up from a championship club?

The main issue here is that the current championship is broken. You either get the yo-yo of premiership clubs or a club effectively buys the league by spending ridiculous amounts compared to the other teams (Ealing?). I have no problem with the RFU realising that this isn't value for money. I have a big issue that this is being done to cut costs rather than redistribute the money to other grassroots areas that need it funding.
A bit biased as a Bedford Blues fan but Ali Price and Duncan Taylor both came through Bedfords academy. Mouritz Botha was working as a carpet cleaner playing for Bedford Ath before spending 3 years at The Blues then going to Sarracens and England, Billy Twelvetrees was released by Leicester, did well at Bedford and then got signed again by Leicester. Mako Vunipola and Ellis Genge started playing for Bristol whilst they were in the Championship. There is a bit of a yo yo but that is down to the funding disparity between the premiership and the championship, cutting funding to the championship won't help.

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by BFG » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:17 pm

If I recall Tom Youngs played quite a bit of rugby at Bedford and Nottingham.
I saw Will Stuart playing for Nottingham not that long ago whilst I was on a jolly day out.
Don't Leicester currently have players playing in the Championship?
There are loads of players that people forget have played Championship rugby!

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by Cardiff Tig » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:31 pm

I understand that lots of international players have played, and future ones currently play, in the championship. But almost none of them are actually from championship teams, they are being loaned out or were released from premiership academies for game time. The two Bedford examples are very much the minority. Bristol were effectively a premiership club in the championship. Take away the competitive nature of the championship and the A league will definitely be improved because it will be in the clubs interest to do so.

The RFU is correct in that talent isn't identified at that level so it makes sense to cut the funding if that is the reason they are currently doing it.

Who here actually thinks the current level of funding for the championship is enough? And that its current form is working as the second tier league? Throwing an insufficient amount of money at a broken league isn't the answer. But as I said, I'm annoyed that the money isn't going somewhere else.

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by BFG » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:38 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:31 pm
I understand that lots of international players have played, and future ones currently play, in the championship. But almost none of them are actually from championship teams, they are being loaned out or were released from premiership academies for game time. The two Bedford examples are very much the minority. Bristol were effectively a premiership club in the championship. Take away the competitive nature of the championship and the A league will definitely be improved because it will be in the clubs interest to do so.

The RFU is correct in that talent isn't identified at that level so it makes sense to cut the funding if that is the reason they are currently doing it.

Who here actually thinks the current level of funding for the championship is enough? And that its current form is working as the second tier league? Throwing an insufficient amount of money at a broken league isn't the answer. But as I said, I'm annoyed that the money isn't going somewhere else.
Talent is identified wherever you go looking for it.
It's everywhere.
The truth here is that the RFU don't actively go looking for talent once their age grade teams are filled.

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by Mr Bean » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:06 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:31 pm
I understand that lots of international players have played, and future ones currently play, in the championship. But almost none of them are actually from championship teams, they are being loaned out or were released from premiership academies for game time. The two Bedford examples are very much the minority. Bristol were effectively a premiership club in the championship. Take away the competitive nature of the championship and the A league will definitely be improved because it will be in the clubs interest to do so.

The RFU is correct in that talent isn't identified at that level so it makes sense to cut the funding if that is the reason they are currently doing it.

Who here actually thinks the current level of funding for the championship is enough? And that its current form is working as the second tier league? Throwing an insufficient amount of money at a broken league isn't the answer. But as I said, I'm annoyed that the money isn't going somewhere else.
The 3 Bedford players were just ones I could think off the top of my head for one club, you could also add Courtney Lawes to the list as he was part of the academy there, Bristol were hardly a passing fancy, they were there for 8 years.

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by Cardiff Tig » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:16 pm

Mr Bean wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:06 pm
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:31 pm
I understand that lots of international players have played, and future ones currently play, in the championship. But almost none of them are actually from championship teams, they are being loaned out or were released from premiership academies for game time. The two Bedford examples are very much the minority. Bristol were effectively a premiership club in the championship. Take away the competitive nature of the championship and the A league will definitely be improved because it will be in the clubs interest to do so.

The RFU is correct in that talent isn't identified at that level so it makes sense to cut the funding if that is the reason they are currently doing it.

Who here actually thinks the current level of funding for the championship is enough? And that its current form is working as the second tier league? Throwing an insufficient amount of money at a broken league isn't the answer. But as I said, I'm annoyed that the money isn't going somewhere else.
The 3 Bedford players were just ones I could think off the top of my head for one club, you could also add Courtney Lawes to the list as he was part of the academy there, Bristol were hardly a passing fancy, they there for 8 years.
Pretty sure Lawes has only ever been with Northampton? Happy to be corrected though. You've only named one English international out of those 3 though, the RFU isn't there to develop Scottish talent. Bristol have the resources of a premiership team, and the only reason they were in there so long was that they kept bottling the playoffs. But this is off-topic.

No one has answered the question - do you think the championship is actually working in its current state?

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by Mr Bean » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:57 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:16 pm
Mr Bean wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:06 pm
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:31 pm
I understand that lots of international players have played, and future ones currently play, in the championship. But almost none of them are actually from championship teams, they are being loaned out or were released from premiership academies for game time. The two Bedford examples are very much the minority. Bristol were effectively a premiership club in the championship. Take away the competitive nature of the championship and the A league will definitely be improved because it will be in the clubs interest to do so.

The RFU is correct in that talent isn't identified at that level so it makes sense to cut the funding if that is the reason they are currently doing it.

Who here actually thinks the current level of funding for the championship is enough? And that its current form is working as the second tier league? Throwing an insufficient amount of money at a broken league isn't the answer. But as I said, I'm annoyed that the money isn't going somewhere else.
The 3 Bedford players were just ones I could think off the top of my head for one club, you could also add Courtney Lawes to the list as he was part of the academy there, Bristol were hardly a passing fancy, they there for 8 years.
Pretty sure Lawes has only ever been with Northampton? Happy to be corrected though. You've only named one English international out of those 3 though, the RFU isn't there to develop Scottish talent. Bristol have the resources of a premiership team, and the only reason they were in there so long was that they kept bottling the playoffs. But this is off-topic.

No one has answered the question - do you think the championship is actually working in its current state?
http://archive.bedfordrugby.co.uk/conte ... tney-lawes

Ali Price and Duncan Taylor are both England qualified but have gone on to play for Scotland. The main problem with the Championship is mismanagement by the RFU. Each club receives £580,000 in central funding, that also includes the central sponsorship of the league. The sponsorship deal is expiring at the end of this season, I don't have hope that the RFU will be working too hard on getting a new sponsor considering they didn't have a sponsor in place for the 4 season prior to Greene King sponsoring the league.

The gap between the two leagues is too vast, the RFU should be supporting the championship to increase the competitiveness not ring fencing in all but name.

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by BFG » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:21 pm

Cardiff Tig you seem to be only focusing on international players but it's not just about international players.
It is about club rugby.
Just a few examples from the best current club side in England.
Harry Williams played for Nottingham and Jersey Reds where he was scouted by Exeter.
Luke Cowan-Dickie played for Plymouth Albion.
Sam Simmonds played for Plymouth Albion and Cornish Pirates.
Gareth Steenson played for Rotheram Titans and Cornish Pirates.
Jack Yeandle played for Doncaster Knights.
Henry Slade played for Plymouth Albion.
Jack Nowell played for Redruth, Plymouth Albion and Cornish Pirates.
Max Bodilly played for Redruth and Cornish Pirates.
Joe Simmonds played for Taunton and Plymouth Albion.
Stu Townsend played for Taunton and Cornish Pirates.
Will Witty played for Blaydon.
Last edited by BFG on Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by Traveller » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:46 pm

JP14 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:08 pm
I’m sure someone should ask Mr Cohen the club’s views on this at the open forum, he is there for off-the-field matters.
I am reasonably confident Mr 'Accountability' Cohen's will reply, "It's not an area I am responsible for.....can I now have my very large pay cheque please. My word did we really come 11th last year and escape relegation this year only because another club had 6 zillion points deducted. What short memories punters have.."

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by westwinds31 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:05 am

Part of the problem is highlighted in some of these posts. Who actually cares about the Championship ? A lot of people don’t even know if any Tigers players are getting game time for a club n that division !! There’s no visibility aside from player x who’s now an international played a handful of games for Nottingham or Bedford. Yes, it’s a good level for young players to make the transition up to the top flight, but sadly, crowds are meagre and facilities aren’t great either. Aside from a small report in the rugby paper, the media don’t care about the lower leagues. TV aren’t interested. Maybe we go with regions now, pull resources together. Just to add, I’m disgusted with the decision by the RFU. I have a strong interest as my son is currently at one of the clubs, having been released by an Academy, so he’s trying to get back up to Prem level but really enjoying the environment of a Championship club. It’s tough and players, coaches and staff are rightly worried that they won’t have a job or club next season. It’s criminal. Meanwhile those idiots at the RFU don’t give a #@%&

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Re: RFU halves Championship funding.

Post by JP14 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:10 am

Traveller wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:46 pm
JP14 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:08 pm
I’m sure someone should ask Mr Cohen the club’s views on this at the open forum, he is there for off-the-field matters.
I am reasonably confident Mr 'Accountability' Cohen's will reply, "It's not an area I am responsible for.....can I now have my very large pay cheque please. My word did we really come 11th last year and escape relegation this year only because another club had 6 zillion points deducted. What short memories punters have.."
Bit unfair Traveller, considering Tigers links with Nottingham, Coventry and Bedford (I think?) perhaps we should be concerned by the Old Farts’ cull.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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