Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

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wellstiger
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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by wellstiger » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:16 am

So - And I know i'm going to be lambasted - should the 6N be moved to the closed season.
I know it is a big touring period for international tournaments and the "friendly tours"

If we are concerned that Prem Clubs are being penalised for supporting international players and we are in one of the beat leagues. That along with fear of breaching the Wage Cap to compete effectively in Prem?
I support 6N and would not like it to disappear. But a move to closed season looks sound to me.

Crofty
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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by Crofty » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:42 am

wellstiger wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:16 am
So - And I know i'm going to be lambasted - should the 6N be moved to the closed season.
I know it is a big touring period for international tournaments and the "friendly tours"

If we are concerned that Prem Clubs are being penalised for supporting international players and we are in one of the beat leagues. That along with fear of breaching the Wage Cap to compete effectively in Prem?
I support 6N and would not like it to disappear. But a move to closed season looks sound to me.
I'm not going to lambast, but I disagree about moving the 6N and will counter that the 6N and Autumn Internationals are why we have the play-offs.

I'd maybe make an argument to extend them out to the top 6 a la the NFL with 1 and 2 playing the winners of 4vs5 and 3vs6 respectively and the winners of those going te Twickenham. This would add a week to the season though but would mean that those going to the European Champions Cup would have legitimately had a shot at the Championship...
No, not that one!

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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by LE18 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:36 pm

kend wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:22 pm
LE18 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:35 pm
kend wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:36 pm

Agree with this. The support is often slow to react to breaks which, for me, is symptomatic of a team low on confidence.

Some points about the game. For me the difference between the sides was Burns - his passing and kicking were a class above everyone else on the pitch. Tigers are always going to struggle with both half backs away - Hardwick is decent player but not (yet) anywhere near Ford. Whites's call (or who ever made the play call) to box kick in the final minutes was right IMHO. They are on their 22 with a LBP; playing out from there is a risk (turnover or penalty with a kick to the corner) of losing the LBP. Exit with a box kick and hope to force an error is the rational tactical call.

TBH I wouldn't get hopes up too high for the rest of the season. The side is back waiting for a new head coach. Players will once again be wondering whether they fit into Borthwick's thinking. The club is still up for sale. All that uncertainty will feed into performances on the pitch. Gramsci would understand: “The old is dying and the new cannot be born. In this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms can appear.”
Very sorry but I cant agree with your negativity, an team that is 3 points down with a couple of minutes to go will be trying to hammer away at opposition to try to secure a win, what use is a LBP to us? I cant remember any other team adopting that stupid negativity!
Of course other teams take the LBP; the call being based on field position, the state of the team and so forth. If White had run the ball and Tigers had conceded a try he would have been crucified on this forum, regardless of the fact Tigers can no longer be relegated. I think some of you forget how quickly on pitch decisions have to be made. Very easy from the stands.
Sorry kend but i'm never going to agree with you on that, I've seen plenty of teams run the ball out even when the clock has gone red, I cant understand kicking it back to them so they can kick it out, its gutless. So I will leave it there.

nasher
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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by nasher » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:00 pm

Kick the ball away/straight to the opposition has been a tigers tactic for a number of years now and some of the senior players are the worst offenders. It must ether be a coached tactic or a poor attitude, I am not informed enough to decide which, but does not appear to be to gain advantage.parting with possession as we do so easily would have upset Chalky enormously.

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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by Tiglon » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:37 pm

nasher wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:00 pm
Kick the ball away/straight to the opposition has been a tigers tactic for a number of years now and some of the senior players are the worst offenders. It must ether be a coached tactic or a poor attitude, I am not informed enough to decide which, but does not appear to be to gain advantage.parting with possession as we do so easily would have upset Chalky enormously.
It's not the 1970's any more and competitions are generally won by teams who kick the ball a lot. Saracens, South Africa etc.

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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by Big Dai » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:41 pm

Crofty wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:42 am
wellstiger wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:16 am
So - And I know i'm going to be lambasted - should the 6N be moved to the closed season.
I know it is a big touring period for international tournaments and the "friendly tours"

If we are concerned that Prem Clubs are being penalised for supporting international players and we are in one of the beat leagues. That along with fear of breaching the Wage Cap to compete effectively in Prem?
I support 6N and would not like it to disappear. But a move to closed season looks sound to me.
I'm not going to lambast, but I disagree about moving the 6N and will counter that the 6N and Autumn Internationals are why we have the play-offs.

I'd maybe make an argument to extend them out to the top 6 a la the NFL with 1 and 2 playing the winners of 4vs5 and 3vs6 respectively and the winners of those going te Twickenham. This would add a week to the season though but would mean that those going to the European Champions Cup would have legitimately had a shot at the Championship...
........ Or just don't play club games when the internationals are on and stop the play offs to make a bit more room?
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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by fentiger » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:47 pm

Big Dai wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:41 pm
........ Or just don't play club games when the internationals are on and stop the play offs to make a bit more room?
Far too sensible to actually happen.....

Offside
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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by Offside » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:05 pm

No autumn international and 6N in a mid-season break where there is a development competition with strict criteria based on who played on the early season first team games? I know the RFU make loads of money out of the autumn internationals but the money is not going into Twickenham and not to grass roots (OK I got a free O2 England be any hat at the last coaching course I went on but.. ). The autumn internationals is one reason why summer tours are now friendlies with little real point. The World Cup is where the best team is decided not other games to make up a world ranking.

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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by fentiger » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:11 pm

Offside wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:05 pm
No autumn international and 6N in a mid-season break where there is a development competition with strict criteria based on who played on the early season first team games? I know the RFU make loads of money out of the autumn internationals but the money is not going into Twickenham and not to grass roots (OK I got a free O2 England be any hat at the last coaching course I went on but.. ). The autumn internationals is one reason why summer tours are now friendlies with little real point. The World Cup is where the best team is decided not other games to make up a world ranking.
Isn't autocorrect wonderful :smt044 :smt044

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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by johnthegriff » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:14 pm

If it is possible to organise the season so that Premiership games are not played during the international periods then great, but unfortunately currently we have to.
I disagree with many of the comments on this thread, Saturday was an old fashioned game on an old fashioned pitch. There were mistakes, our lineout was poor, it usually seems to be when the opposition have a player recently in our squad. The game could have gone either way, like a few others I thought that even with our team missing most of their England players we could win. Lineout apart we won the forward battle, Bath had the edge when they moved the ball out wide. Our young halfbacks did ok and will have learned from the experience. Obviously there were mistakes by both teams in those conditions, we came out on the wrong side of the scoreline, there have been fairly recent games at the Rec when we were miles away from a win or a losing bonus point. Despite the result there are signs that we are on the way back, close season recruitment and the development of our young guys will eventually get us back to where we all want our team to be.

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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by kk20gb30 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:23 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:37 pm
nasher wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:00 pm
Kick the ball away/straight to the opposition has been a tigers tactic for a number of years now and some of the senior players are the worst offenders. It must ether be a coached tactic or a poor attitude, I am not informed enough to decide which, but does not appear to be to gain advantage.parting with possession as we do so easily would have upset Chalky enormously.
It's not the 1970's any more and competitions are generally won by teams who kick the ball a lot. Saracens, South Africa etc.
...yes but please take into account the quality of the kick, then the subsequent chase and press.
Areas where are deficiencies are clearly shown.

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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by BFG » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:35 pm

kk20gb30 wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:23 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:37 pm
nasher wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:00 pm
Kick the ball away/straight to the opposition has been a tigers tactic for a number of years now and some of the senior players are the worst offenders. It must ether be a coached tactic or a poor attitude, I am not informed enough to decide which, but does not appear to be to gain advantage.parting with possession as we do so easily would have upset Chalky enormously.
It's not the 1970's any more and competitions are generally won by teams who kick the ball a lot. Saracens, South Africa etc.
...yes but please take into account the quality of the kick, then the subsequent chase and press.
Areas where are deficiencies are clearly shown.
Exactly.
Not much point in employing the tactic if you can't pin down the receiver and enable the defensive line to get set, otherwise the defending looks like a bunch of kids with too much sugar in their diet playing British Bulldog.

Tiglon
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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by Tiglon » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:28 pm

I would have thought it would go without saying that whatever you do, you need to do it well.

No we're not very good at kicking and chasing, correct. So we should try to run it from our own 22 because... we're really good at that?!

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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by Crumblies » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:07 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:28 pm
I would have thought it would go without saying that whatever you do, you need to do it well.

No we're not very good at kicking and chasing, correct. So we should try to run it from our own 22 because... we're really good at that?!
Yes!

We’ve been kicking badly and chasing poorly for a very long time.

As Johno reputedly once said to Ramiro Pez in a game against Ulster, ‘you kick that ball away to the opposition one more time and I’ll kick it where the sun doesn’t shine’. Or words of a more colourful nature to the same effect.

The definition of stupidity is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

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Re: Bath vs. Tigers - Sat 25 Jan 15:00

Post by kend » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:40 am

Crumblies wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:07 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:28 pm
I would have thought it would go without saying that whatever you do, you need to do it well.

No we're not very good at kicking and chasing, correct. So we should try to run it from our own 22 because... we're really good at that?!
Yes!

We’ve been kicking badly and chasing poorly for a very long time.

As Johno reputedly once said to Ramiro Pez in a game against Ulster, ‘you kick that ball away to the opposition one more time and I’ll kick it where the sun doesn’t shine’. Or words of a more colourful nature to the same effect.

The definition of stupidity is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
Actually Tigers did run the ball from more or less the same position a few minutes before. Tigers made inroads in to the defence until the move broke down when Bateman's offload went to a Bath hand (who then released Chudley who cut through and nearly got away). The field had broken up somewhat so there were spaces to run at.

In the second situation the line out was scrappy and the ball was slow. The forwards would have been carrying the ball into a set defence in their 22. A mistake or infringement here is potentially costly. It's likely the phase would have ended up in a kick of some sort and White took responsibility.

Doubtless there are many things for the coaches to review from Saturday, but I would have thought the tactical calls in those situations will not be on that list. The chase is another matter......

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