Saracens are relegated!

[Hot_Charlie]

I seem to remember seeing pictures of our players with the title "sponsored by........" If a player is sponsored by an outside rich individual, or company, does his sponsorship count into the salary cap? What form does "sponsorship" consist of?

I think those sponsorships are no more than using the player as a vehicle for a sponsorship of the club, ie the money doesn’t go to the player.

[Traveller]

So your saying I’m not allowed to give an opinion, and I’ve quite clearly stated it is my opinion

You are clearly allowed to give an opinion. Opinions are based on knowledge, however limited, not gut feeling.

That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on here. Just googled opinion, A view or judgement about something not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

I await your apology, though I’m not holding my breath

This is fun. We are not always on the same page M62 but I am with you on this occasions. Opinions can be based on facts. But many people clearly do make judgements, opinions on the basis of gut feeling, intuition etc. That's why we such words and phrases as 'gut feeling" and 'intuition' in the first place. Rory Sutherland the great marketing guru has just written a best selling book on the subject.

[Traveller]

It is still an "if", all Griffiths has said is that they're reviewing things and if it needs reducing then either some players take cuts or they reduce the head count - I think it's a PR statement to show everyone they want to play fair now and say they're willing to do whatever it takes to comply with the rules.

If they do need to reduce their wage bill, I would imagine they would wait until theyre safe from relegation and then cut loose any players who are out of contract at the end of the season.

How easy it is legally to terminate someone's fixed term contract early like that, I dont know. Maybe compensation for early termination of contract doesn't count towards the cap.

The remarkable thing is that it is Edward Griffiths, the former CEO who got on a plane back to SA sharpish, clutching a briefcase just before the last investigation in 2015 that has come back to clear this mess up. I hear that Fred the Shred is going to take over from Mark Carney at the Bank of England.

[LE18]

I seem to remember seeing pictures of our players with the title "sponsored by........" If a player is sponsored by an outside rich individual, or company, does his sponsorship count into the salary cap? What form does "sponsorship" consist of?

I think those sponsorships are no more than using the player as a vehicle for a sponsorship of the club, ie the money doesn’t go to the player.

I still don't understand, I thought it was possibly money, or is it housing, meals clothing etc?

[Mark62]

I seem to remember seeing pictures of our players with the title "sponsored by........" If a player is sponsored by an outside rich individual, or company, does his sponsorship count into the salary cap? What form does "sponsorship" consist of?

I think those sponsorships are no more than using the player as a vehicle for a sponsorship of the club, ie the money doesn’t go to the player.

I still don't understand, I thought it was possibly money, or is it housing, meals clothing etc?

From my days in junior rugby, players sponsors paid money to the club in order to get publicity, I.e. their names would appear in the match day programme, they would get a advertising board round the pitch etc.
I would imagine the same is true at tigers but on a larger scale. A company will pay money to the club to be associated with a certain player, they will then get mentioned as such in the program, be able to use that fact in their own publicity, possibly get some meet and greets after the game.
I would imagine it’s on a sliding scale so you would pay more for Jonny May than you would for Jordan Olowefela

[Tiglon]

I think those sponsorships are no more than using the player as a vehicle for a sponsorship of the club, ie the money doesn’t go to the player.

I still don't understand, I thought it was possibly money, or is it housing, meals clothing etc?

From my days in junior rugby, players sponsors paid money to the club in order to get publicity, I.e. their names would appear in the match day programme, they would get a advertising board round the pitch etc.
I would imagine the same is true at tigers but on a larger scale. A company will pay money to the club to be associated with a certain player, they will then get mentioned as such in the program, be able to use that fact in their own publicity, possibly get some meet and greets after the game.
I would imagine it’s on a sliding scale so you would pay more for Jonny May than you would for Jordan Olowefela

Exactly this. You pay money to the club, they advertise you as sponsoring player X. Northampton offer different prices for different players, I assume other clubs do similar.

When a company does directly sponsor a player, it could be counted towards the cap if that sponsor is "connected" to the club and cannot be "demonstrated separate". That's how I understand it anyway. So, if Tigers paid George Ford £100k per year, and then Caterpillar agreed to sponsor Ford directly and pay him £700k per year, it would be pretty obvious what was going on - a more sensible amount might be harder to judge. Of course, as Sale's owner pointed out, it's impossible for the Salary Cap auditors to know if any other companies connected to a club are making payments to a player - if there's a loophole, that's it.

[fentiger]

Looks like the exodus is beginning, Williams going straight away. Oh, what a shame about poor Mr Clark!

Chris Foy, Daily Mail:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... emain.html

[Flash]

This would seem to suggest that it was more than just the co investments that caused them to be over the cap.

[Cagey Tiger]

This would seem to suggest that it was more than just the co investments that caused them to be over the cap.

Read somewhere that the players that had co-investments were paid "lower than you would expect" salaries. These now need to be increased to make up for the loss of the co-investments. Something like that.

[daktari]

This would seem to suggest that it was more than just the co investments that caused them to be over the cap.

As said above, I think those with the "investment scheme" are not being paid their considered value so in order to keep them, others have to go - demonstrates how much the cheating twisted the league.

[kpj tiger]

Looks like the exodus is beginning, Williams going straight away. Oh, what a shame about poor Mr Clark!

Chris Foy, Daily Mail:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... emain.html

I'm confused, if they are immediately releasing players so they aren't over the cap then that means they've played half of the season breaking the rules which would mean they should be punished again next season. It would also bring into disrepute the results of their fixtures so far this season

[CrumblingTerrace]

This is very tough on the players that are being sacrificed.

[Wes]

I'm confused, if they are immediately releasing players so they aren't over the cap then that means they've played half of the season breaking the rules which would mean they should be punished again next season. It would also bring into disrepute the results of their fixtures so far this season

The players who are being released haven't yet played. this means that there salaries don't count to the cap. It does therefore imply that If they played, Saracens would have been over the cap again this year. Whether thats due to certain players needing more PAYE wages now that their 'business interests' have been curtailed or that Saracens were simply going to be paying over the cap this year in basic wages it amounts to the same thing.

[fentiger]

This is very tough on the players that are being sacrificed.

Except Clark

[Tiglon]

This is very tough on the players that are being sacrificed.

Except Clark

I'm sure they'll get compensation, which wont count to the cap if they haven't played a game. Perhaps some will negotiate or be allowed time to find a new club before being jettisoned.