Saracens are relegated!

[strawclearer]

I find it disingenuous in the extreme for Wray to claim his/their actions were found to be 'reckless' rather than 'deliberate'.

"The decision of the Independent Panel is that Saracens Rugby Club failed to disclose payments to players in each of the seasons 2016-17, 2017-18 and 2018-19. In addition, the Club is found to have exceeded the ceiling for payments to senior players in each of the three seasons. The Panel therefore upheld all of the charges."

I suspect a deal was done to avoid further litigation and delay. Premiership Rugby agreed to call the actions "reckless" rather than "deliberate" in order to bring matters to a speedier conclusion. For Wray to use that as some form of mitigation is, imho, beneath contempt.

[speedski]

Does this mean that as Wray is no longer on the board or has nothing to link him to the club he can continue to "give" donations to players as a gift and therefore not part of the Sarries cap??? The statement includes the promise that the Wray family will continue to support the club financially.

You would hope it wouldn't be that simple. He's still the owner so I doubt it makes any difference.

I do wonder how long before he loses interest and sells up once he has no involvement in running the club.

Perhaps a big part of the enjoyment for him was going to other clubs, being seen as important and generally taking the kudos attached to running such a successful club. That's disappeared now he and they have been labelled cheats, so what's the attraction of staying involved now? And, if not involved, why continue to lose millions for it?

Well he’s not welcome at most clubs now - He can just continue being a bank - and to the point of paying outside the salary cap - can’t see any way to stop that occurring.

Once a cheat....and all that...

[Traveller]

Wray has brought shame to not just his own club, but the entire sport. To use his own words, he's, "Pulled the rug out," from under all of us.

That he should retire with immediate effect without even referencing the years of cheating he was at the centre of shows his true character.

Spot on.

Richmond RFC a founding members of the RFU (one of the oldest sporting clubs in the world -1861) was bought by Ashley Levitt at the start of the professional era. He placed the club into administration in 1999 having invested in it heavily.

Premiership Rugby keen to maintain the ‘integrity of the competition’ (their words) removed their Share almost immediately. In the wilderness for a year, with zero help from PR or the RFU, a year later they were allocated a place nine divisions lower in the RFU's words 'to a position befitting their standing.'

Nigel Wray ignores the competition agreement he signed up to from the outset. In 2015 gets caught. Agrees to play by fair. Then proceeds to cheat in 2016-2017, 2017-2018, 2018-2019. Saracens are fined, receive a points deduction, and are allowed to continue with exactly the same squad..

The Honourable Mr Wray steps down as Chair AND Edward Griffiths returns. This would be Edward Griffiths who left in early 2015 immediately before the previous investigation. If there were any serious journalists left they might look into the rationale for his departure.

But if the BBC's Chris Jones is typical of the mob who pretend to report on the game that won't happen since he has just gone on record as saying the game is indebted to Nigel Wray.

[voice of the crumbie]

Spot on Traveller.

Maybe the Daily Mail will follow your suggestion and investigate further as they featured this story in the first place.

[fentiger]

Spot on Traveller.

Maybe the Daily Mail will follow your suggestion and investigate further as they featured this story in the first place.

Maybe, although I think Laura Lambert is now working for the BBC (she’s the one who got her teeth into it originally).

[POSTIGER]

Apparently Wray is now stepping down.....

Link here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... ampaign=64

He's decided to take a more hands-off approach to cheating.

[WhitecapTiger]

Apparently Wray is now stepping down.....

Link here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... ampaign=64

He's decided to take a more hands-off approach to cheating.

Stepping through another loophole no doubt.....

[LE18]

Apparently Wray is now stepping down.....

Link here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... ampaign=64

He's decided to take a more hands-off approach to cheating.

Stepping through another loophole no doubt.....

I heard Mike Rhodes left with immediate effect?

[WhitecapTiger]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... fect-time/

Nigel Wray 'disillusioned with other owners' in wake of Saracens salary cap scandal, reveals Brendan Venter

So there it is, it is everyone else's fault no shame, no remorse....by the looks of things, PR machine into full swing - oh woe is me.

[Hot_Charlie]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... fect-time/

Nigel Wray 'disillusioned with other owners' in wake of Saracens salary cap scandal, reveals Brendan Venter

So there it is, it is everyone else's fault no shame, no remorse....by the looks of things, PR machine into full swing - oh woe is me.

Disgraceful. Maybe those comments should be turned on their head; maybe it’s the other club owners who are disillusioned with Mr Wray.

[Cagey Tiger]

Does this mean that as Wray is no longer on the board or has nothing to link him to the club he can continue to "give" donations to players as a gift and therefore not part of the Sarries cap??? The statement includes the promise that the Wray family will continue to support the club financially.

You would hope it wouldn't be that simple. He's still the owner so I doubt it makes any difference.

I do wonder how long before he loses interest and sells up once he has no involvement in running the club.

Perhaps a big part of the enjoyment for him was going to other clubs, being seen as important and generally taking the kudos attached to running such a successful club. That's disappeared now he and they have been labelled cheats, so what's the attraction of staying involved now? And, if not involved, why continue to lose millions for it?

I'll turn that last paragraph round. Having spent something like £50 million (according to The Times) over some 20 or so years, he is obviously very keen on Sarries. If he has the money, I doubt that he will cut and run and leave them in the lurch. Quite the opposite. He likes basking in the reflected glory and he didn't think that he was doing anything wrong when he did it. So why go? There is a definite feeling that he has been persuaded to step down. What difference that will make, who knows?

[jgriffin]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... fect-time/

Nigel Wray 'disillusioned with other owners' in wake of Saracens salary cap scandal, reveals Brendan Venter

So there it is, it is everyone else's fault no shame, no remorse....by the looks of things, PR machine into full swing - oh woe is me.

Disgraceful. Maybe those comments should be turned on their head; maybe it’s the other club owners who are disillusioned with Mr Wray.

Mr Rowe of Exeter is most dischuffed and still thinks Sarries are up to something.

[Tiglon]

Does this mean that as Wray is no longer on the board or has nothing to link him to the club he can continue to "give" donations to players as a gift and therefore not part of the Sarries cap??? The statement includes the promise that the Wray family will continue to support the club financially.

You would hope it wouldn't be that simple. He's still the owner so I doubt it makes any difference.

I do wonder how long before he loses interest and sells up once he has no involvement in running the club.

Perhaps a big part of the enjoyment for him was going to other clubs, being seen as important and generally taking the kudos attached to running such a successful club. That's disappeared now he and they have been labelled cheats, so what's the attraction of staying involved now? And, if not involved, why continue to lose millions for it?

I'll turn that last paragraph round. Having spent something like £50 million (according to The Times) over some 20 or so years, he is obviously very keen on Sarries. If he has the money, I doubt that he will cut and run and leave them in the lurch. Quite the opposite. He likes basking in the reflected glory and he didn't think that he was doing anything wrong when he did it. So why go? There is a definite feeling that he has been persuaded to step down. What difference that will make, who knows?

Quite possibly, but who could persuade him to step down if he didn't want to?

[Hot_Charlie]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... fect-time/



So there it is, it is everyone else's fault no shame, no remorse....by the looks of things, PR machine into full swing - oh woe is me.

Disgraceful. Maybe those comments should be turned on their head; maybe it’s the other club owners who are disillusioned with Mr Wray.

Mr Rowe of Exeter is most dischuffed and still thinks Sarries are up to something.

I think as the “new kid on the block”, and one who may have benefitted least from the administrative woes in the salary cap department at Saracens, Mr Rowe has every right to keep pushing until a satisfactory audit has taken place this season. Maybe his clubs lack of reputation as an old “grandee” of the game is useful in that sense.

I also think it might be him seizing an opportunity to take more of a leading role in PRL.

[fentiger]

Apparently the Saracens fine is being divvied up to the other Premiership clubs (hopefully including Newcastle?) so about £500k each