Saracens are relegated!

[strawclearer]

I've just heard Sarries have been relegated, it's been confirmed!

Actually relegated or confirmation of a further points reduction?

[Scott1]

My mistake, a further 35 points so effectively barring a miracle they are relegated.

[sapajo]

I've just heard Sarries have been relegated, it's been confirmed!

Says who and when??

[Tiglon]

Saracens should also be stripped of the trophies they have won over the past seasons in which they broke the cap.

I believe they've elected not to hand the trophies back.

Too late for that, the punishment for previous seasons has already been confirmed and handed out. What we're talking about now is this season.

[Scott1]

Interesting piece, so there is a salary cap in the Championship then after all
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... rugby.html

[Mark62]

The talk now seems to be of automatic relegation for Saracens

[cheltexile]

Interesting piece, so there is a salary cap in the Championship then after all
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... rugby.html

I'm intrigued to know what else is hiding in their financial accounts if they would rather take a bath in the Championship than let auditors have a peek at them...

[WhitecapTiger]

Interesting piece, so there is a salary cap in the Championship then after all
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... rugby.html

I'm intrigued to know what else is hiding in their financial accounts if they would rather take a bath in the Championship than let auditors have a peek at them...

Hopefully someone bigger, and with stronger cajones, than PRL start to dig into their finances..... I agree with cheltexile, agreeing quickly to automatic relegation adds more stench to the stinking air around their club already and raises suspicions of what else has been going on - what are they trying to hide?

I'm not really one for a witch hunt but Nigel Wray needs to face some proper music, not just the kind he plays on his own penny whistle as he seemingly dances off into the sunset.....although hopefully he's taking all the other rats with him.

[Mark62]

I am not an expert either financially or legally and other posters have much wider knowledge than me.

BUT surely this constitutes Fraud and Fraud is a criminal offence, and therefore needs investigating as such.

Apologies if this wide of the mark

[Tiglon]

I am not an expert either financially or legally and other posters have much wider knowledge than me.

BUT surely this constitutes Fraud and Fraud is a criminal offence, and therefore needs investigating as such.

Apologies if this wide of the mark

The short answer - no. Partly because the standard of proof of dishonesty and intention to gain would be very difficult to reach, but mostly because a guilty verdict would set a precedent which could lead to every sporting act of cheating being criminalised.

The law isn't there to police sporting rules and regulations.

[Mark62]

I am not an expert either financially or legally and other posters have much wider knowledge than me.

BUT surely this constitutes Fraud and Fraud is a criminal offence, and therefore needs investigating as such.

Apologies if this wide of the mark

The short answer - no. Partly because the standard of proof of dishonesty and intention to gain would be very difficult to reach, but mostly because a guilty verdict would set a precedent which could lead to every sporting act of cheating being criminalised.

The law isn't there to police sporting rules and regulations.

Ok thank you

[Tiglon]

I am not an expert either financially or legally and other posters have much wider knowledge than me.

BUT surely this constitutes Fraud and Fraud is a criminal offence, and therefore needs investigating as such.

Apologies if this wide of the mark

The short answer - no. Partly because the standard of proof of dishonesty and intention to gain would be very difficult to reach, but mostly because a guilty verdict would set a precedent which could lead to every sporting act of cheating being criminalised.

The law isn't there to police sporting rules and regulations.

Ok thank you

To add to that, civil action is also very unlikely. Imagine the conversation in court...

Mr Rowe: "Your honour, these cheating barstuds have breached our contract and I demand that damages be paid!"

Judge reads contract and responds: "You are absolutely right Mr Rowe, this is a very easy decision because the contract provides for such a scenario and sets out exactly the damages that must be paid. I find in your favour - Saracens must pay £5.4m plus costs in damages to the other signatories of the contract, and be deducted 35 points."

Mr Rowe: "Erm, that has already happened your honour."

Judge: "If Saracens have already agreed to pay the damages that you agreed to in the contract, why are you in my court wasting my time?"

[Jimmy Skitz]

there is no criminal action, they broke the rules of a private club and should be punished under that clubs regulations not the law of the land, unless they have defrauded HMRC, which has never been mentioned

[Mark62]

there is no criminal action, they broke the rules of a private club and should be punished under that clubs regulations not the law of the land, unless they have defrauded HMRC, which has never been mentioned

Again my knowledge is very low, and I take your point this hasn’t been mentioned, but shouldn’t these payments into what we’re basically shell companies been declared to HMRC, or maybe they have

[Jimmy Skitz]

there is no criminal action, they broke the rules of a private club and should be punished under that clubs regulations not the law of the land, unless they have defrauded HMRC, which has never been mentioned

Again my knowledge is very low, and I take your point this hasn’t been mentioned, but shouldn’t these payments into what we’re basically shell companies been declared to HMRC, or maybe they have

Investment into companies are monitored and any payments those companies make to the players are subject to tax laws