Saracens are relegated!

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fentiger
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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by fentiger » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:36 am

speedski wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:22 am
So it wasn’t £2.4m on itoje - I heard it wrong - it was actually that they overpaid in value - with a secondary firm saying the ‘purchase’ was only worth half of what they actually paid. (Worth 800k, paid £1.6m - but still that’s £1.6m outside of cap!)

Press this morning reporting the report says that there was no sign players knew what was going on but...

Club A offers you £150k salary.
Club B offers you £150k salary.
Club C offers you £150k salary and a 20% property subsidy (which on this occasion was worth £280k).

It’s pretty obvious that something is a miss - I mean you would ask wouldn’t you - what’s they likely mean is Sarries told the players it was all legit - and the players were naive enough to believe or accept it...
Neither naive or stupid in my opinion, this is no different to those politicians who took brown envelope bungs! They knew it was wrong but took a chance, then all hell breaks loose when it gets found out!

loretta
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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by loretta » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:33 am

Itoje gets paid just under 100k over 3 years to schmooze with punters and there's no evidence he showed up?
Who wouldn't smell a rat?
All I said was ........

Mark62
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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by Mark62 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:01 am

So they haven’t overpaid salaries they have just found other ways, outside the cap, to pay their star players a lot of money. They have bent the rules and have been caught.
It’s Saracens that accepted automatic relegation rather than opening their books.
Reports are now that the big names will stay with them, it won’t affect their England or Lions opportunitys, and WHEN they win the championship next season they can come straight back up.
PRL I imagine will be all over their books for the next 2 seasons to ensure there is no repeat so their players will have to suffer drops in income, and their squad depth will decrease.

What’s the betting that Sky or even Amazon are in negotiations with the club to follow their journey next season in a series of documentaries and to show all their home games live

loretta
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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by loretta » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:26 am

Mark62 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:01 am
So they haven’t overpaid salaries they have just found other ways, outside the cap, to pay their star players a lot of money. They have bent the rules and have been caught.
It’s Saracens that accepted automatic relegation rather than opening their books.
Reports are now that the big names will stay with them, it won’t affect their England or Lions opportunitys, and WHEN they win the championship next season they can come straight back up.
PRL I imagine will be all over their books for the next 2 seasons to ensure there is no repeat so their players will have to suffer drops in income, and their squad depth will decrease.

What’s the betting that Sky or even Amazon are in negotiations with the club to follow their journey next season in a series of documentaries and to show all their home games live
Can they?
All I said was ........

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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by Mark62 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:28 am

Yes I’ve read that they won’t have to do the 2 season thing

daktari
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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by daktari » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:33 am

Mark62 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:28 am
Yes I’ve read that they won’t have to do the 2 season thing
Law 15.1 Saracens can do what the hell want :smt002
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Tiglon
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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by Tiglon » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:33 am

The 2 season thing was a misunderstanding of the rules by people like Monye jumping to conclusions.

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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by Bunchy » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:35 am

the only way the majority of the big names will stay is if they go out on a season long loan - Saracens need to cut costs and the championship has a salary cap too. I cant imagine they wont be looked at quite severely next season too.....

As McCall was quoted - this squad will be broken up and its the end of an era - for me the era ending is one of arrogance, cheating and greed
Less is more....

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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by Cardiff Tig » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:41 am

Bunchy wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:35 am
the only way the majority of the big names will stay is if they go out on a season long loan - Saracens need to cut costs and the championship has a salary cap too. I cant imagine they wont be looked at quite severely next season too.....

As McCall was quoted - this squad will be broken up and its the end of an era - for me the era ending is one of arrogance, cheating and greed
It wouldn't surprise me if some of the big names stick around and its the next tier down that get moved on. Farrell and Itoje have nothing left to prove but a year in a lower league for Lozowski and Earls, for example, won't help further their careers in the same way. There should be potential for some good signings to be picked up...

They could have a few stars and loads of youngsters and still walk to the top spot in the championship.

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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by BFG » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:55 am

I have to say that I don't know how they can put that low a value on Itoje's image rights.
If they only value a 30% share of his image rights at £800k then that means the total value of his image rights is only £2.66 million, at this early stage of his career that doesn't seem a true value in my opinion.
The lad is already becoming a global star and we don't know what his long term plans are.
He would be a huge loss to the Premiership already, were he to go and play in Japan or France it could potentially reduce the next T.V deal here by tens of millions.
He is a very important player and not just to Sarries but to the entire league and England.
It makes total sense for Sarries owners to get involved in his image rights as Premiership shareholders, that way they can influence keeping him in the Premiership and keeping the value of the Premiership rights higher which is of huge benefit to all clubs when selling those rights on.
Last edited by BFG on Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

Mark62
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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by Mark62 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:55 am

It’s going to come down to the income drop they have to take I thing. As others have mentioned their payments will be whiter than white next season.
Some my choose to stay give their bodies a rest play every third game, and still collect their England fees for the November internationals and 6 nations games

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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by Yorkietiger » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:48 am

In my opinion, Itoje, the Vunipolas, Ashton, Wigglesworth, Farrell and any other players who accepted side deals that benefited them financially should also be sanctioned. It is obvious to anyone with more than average intelligence that these deals were nothing less than bungs. They knew exactly what was happening and they are just as guilty as their cheating management. Claiming some lawyer employed by Wray told them it was legally ok is no defence. It is clear to me that they must have known payments at the very least were against the spirit of the salary cap, that for me is bad enough Whichever you look at it, they knew they were cheating.

If they want to keep playing in the PRL they should be made to acknowledge their cheating and also agree henceforth to their own personal financial position to be independently audited at any time to ensure there are no other future violations.

If they do not wish to do that, then they can go play elsewhere, if anyone else will have them.

fentiger
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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by fentiger » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:48 am

The link to the published report:
https://media-cdn.incrowdsports.com/fa0 ... a67de6.pdf

Para 62 :smt044 pure back stabbing!

jgriffin
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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by jgriffin » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:10 pm

Reading the report it is astonishing how comprehensive Sarries challenge was, despite Wray and the CEO admitting a cap was necessary. They were attempting to drive a coach, horses and the cavalry through the cap!
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Re: Saracens are relegated!

Post by BFG » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:47 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:10 pm
Reading the report it is astonishing how comprehensive Sarries challenge was, despite Wray and the CEO admitting a cap was necessary. They were attempting to drive a coach, horses and the cavalry through the cap!
I thought the report quite amateurish in parts, churlish in others and so on.
When they're valuing a 30% share of Itoje's image rights at £800k though then in my opinion from a business and investment perspective you may as well just walk away and accept your fate.

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