Saracens are relegated!

[Northenlad]

They had two choices: Open up their books, or take relegation. They took relegation.......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51164177

[RichieB]

Here's a question - if this was Tigers instead of Saracens, how many regular fans would be lost for good to the club? Given the justifiable strength of feeling against Wray et al, I'm guessing many on here would not continue to support the club on principal. This is very difficult if, like Leicester, it has been such a great club for so many years.

I'm not sure on Saracen's history, but they have nothing on Tigers. This could be the end of the club, not just because they lose players but sponsors and fans as well.

[MurphysLaw]

The repercussions of this will be huge for the English game, and I wonder how it might affect potential investors and sponsors, including those allegedly looking to buy into Tigers.

It also puts a huge focus on whatever comes out of the Myners Report on the Salary Cap.

Also, while I am not yet convinced by the idea of 'ring fencing' the Prem, is now the time for those clubs that want it to push for for a trial period?

[trendylfj]

One aspect of this load of xxxx which hasn't been explored but they qualified in order to play and be seeded high in the champions cup whilst obtaining that when they were cheating. I am aware that they can't defend next year if they win but they also denied another club of the associated revenue because of this during the current campaign. Should their quarter final place be given to the next ranked team even though there is no cap in European competitions?

[Mark62]

Posters are saying that they will have to stay in the championship for a minimum of 2 years. For me this is huge. Players may say we’ll play for a season down there but never 2. I would imagine any lawyer worth his salt could get their contracts declared null and void due to what’s been going on so are we likely to see an exodus of some of their big names to France for a couple of seasons.
Yes it would mean they wouldn’t be selected for England, but they would still be available for the Lions tour, and return to the Premiership in time to be considered for World Cup selection.

Secondly I wonder how they’re going to be against Racing this lunchtime. Europe is now all they have left. If my maths is correct a tbp win would give them 19 points and they would sneak in as 8th seed meaning a trip to Dublin

[Mark62]

They had two choices: Open up their books, or take relegation. They took relegation.......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51164177

Already a huge thread on this my friend

[trendylfj]

If the prem is ring fenced, what sanctions will be available to cap cheats in future? As I said in an earlier post, fully open accounts/books should be given to an independent firm for scrutiny in November and again in March with warnings given to clubs who are likely to overspend with sanctions applied at the March inspection to club who did not heed the November warning and in July when final accounts are looked at to clubs who failed to heed the March warnings. Personally I would also operate a 3 strikes and you are out for 5 years - no if you promise to be a good boy in the future excuses - out for 5 years.

[wellstiger]

I detest the idea of ring fencing.
What incentive is there for Championship sides to advance or poor performing clubs to dig themselves from relegation.
On the past two seasons Tigers could have found themselves rooted with no incentive to play. Does this scenario help advance the club.And there was more coverage of the relegation battles than the top of the table.
Rather ( excepting yesterdays game ) The team look as though they are turning a corner.
Could you have been able to relegate Sarries in a ring fenced League?
If and its a big IF, the investigation into other clubs finances finds similar results how do you deal with them if ring fencing is approved.?

Rather shouldn't we be offering financial a bigger incentive to promoted clubs so that they can survive in the PL for a longer period?.

[TomWeston]

They should be stripped of their titles immediately. To think they've cheated their way to English and European titles, it's absolutely disgusting.

They have massively tarnished the reputation of rugby union. Well done to the authorities for meting out such a harsh punishment. The sport is bigger than Nigel Wray's bank balance.

Will they still be described as one of the most successful rugby union clubs in the world, after this?

They still are, according to one Stephen Jones, Tigers Fan Extraordinaire, in the Sunday Times.

“ None can touch Saracens. In this era, they have been the greatest club team I have seen.”

“ On a final note, I will go to my grave believing that no payment to a single Saracens player made a blind bit of difference to any match at any time. And that frankly, Saracens have just been too good.”

No reference to the fact that the team wouldn’t/couldn’t have been that good without throwing money at players from academy level upwards.

[Mark62]

I detest the idea of ring fencing.
What incentive is there for Championship sides to advance or poor performing clubs to dig themselves from relegation.
On the past two seasons Tigers could have found themselves rooted with no incentive to play. Does this scenario help advance the club.And there was more coverage of the relegation battles than the top of the table.
Rather ( excepting yesterdays game ) The team look as though they are turning a corner.
Could you have been able to relegate Sarries in a ring fenced League?
If and its a big IF, the investigation into other clubs finances finds similar results how do you deal with them if ring fencing is approved.?

Rather shouldn't we be offering financial a bigger incentive to promoted clubs so that they can survive in the PL for a longer period?.

I do understand why people are against ring fencing, but I wonder how much of a curates egg promotion is for clubs, and how many playing in the championship, Falcons aside, really want it.
Again the idea of financial incentive is great, but where is the money coming from, when existing premiership clubs are operating at a loss.
Imho there should be moratorium on promotion and relegation from the premiership down to and including national division 2, for a couple of seasons, to give all clubs a chance to get their house in order, because despite the success of the national team, the finances of the game are a mess, and a number of clubs would already have gone under if they didn’t have wealthy individuals backing them

[loretta]

Posters are saying that they will have to stay in the championship for a minimum of 2 years. For me this is huge. Players may say we’ll play for a season down there but never 2. I would imagine any lawyer worth his salt could get their contracts declared null and void due to what’s been going on so are we likely to see an exodus of some of their big names to France for a couple of seasons.
Yes it would mean they wouldn’t be selected for England, but they would still be available for the Lions tour, and return to the Premiership in time to be considered for World Cup selection

Agreed, and I’d love to see it confirmed. Just spent half an hour looking for the regs regarding salary cap compliance prior to promotion, without success. Anyone know where it can be found?

[Mark62]

They should be stripped of their titles immediately. To think they've cheated their way to English and European titles, it's absolutely disgusting.

They have massively tarnished the reputation of rugby union. Well done to the authorities for meting out such a harsh punishment. The sport is bigger than Nigel Wray's bank balance.

Will they still be described as one of the most successful rugby union clubs in the world, after this?

They still are, according to one Stephen Jones, Tigers Fan Extraordinaire, in the Sunday Times.

“ None can touch Saracens. In this era, they have been the greatest club team I have seen.”

“ On a final note, I will go to my grave believing that no payment to a single Saracens player made a blind bit of difference to any match at any time. And that frankly, Saracens have just been too good.”

No reference to the fact that the team wouldn’t/couldn’t have been that good without throwing money at players from academy level upwards.

Stephen Jones has lost all credibility as a rugby journalist imo

[loretta]

They should be stripped of their titles immediately. To think they've cheated their way to English and European titles, it's absolutely disgusting.

They have massively tarnished the reputation of rugby union. Well done to the authorities for meting out such a harsh punishment. The sport is bigger than Nigel Wray's bank balance.

Will they still be described as one of the most successful rugby union clubs in the world, after this?

They still are, according to one Stephen Jones, Tigers Fan Extraordinaire, in the Sunday Times.

“ None can touch Saracens. In this era, they have been the greatest club team I have seen.”

“ On a final note, I will go to my grave believing that no payment to a single Saracens player made a blind bit of difference to any match at any time. And that frankly, Saracens have just been too good.”

No reference to the fact that the team wouldn’t/couldn’t have been that good without throwing money at players from academy level upwards.

A friend of mine used to have Jones’ email address so he could lambast him whenever he spoke such drivel. Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, it no longer works. Happy days....

[POSTIGER]

As huge as this news is, it could be the tip of the iceberg. I'm stunned that they chose relegation over opening their books up for scrutiny. This suggests to me that it goes way beyond breaching the salary cap. I genuinely hope I'm wrong but I suspect that a few people at Sarries are worried about the much more serious charge of fraud.

Their selfishness and ruthlessness will have massive repercussions for all of English rugby. I have no sympathy at all for them. They're a huge stain on the sport.

[POSTIGER]

They should be stripped of their titles immediately. To think they've cheated their way to English and European titles, it's absolutely disgusting.

They have massively tarnished the reputation of rugby union. Well done to the authorities for meting out such a harsh punishment. The sport is bigger than Nigel Wray's bank balance.

Will they still be described as one of the most successful rugby union clubs in the world, after this?

They still are, according to one Stephen Jones, Tigers Fan Extraordinaire, in the Sunday Times.

“ None can touch Saracens. In this era, they have been the greatest club team I have seen.”

“ On a final note, I will go to my grave believing that no payment to a single Saracens player made a blind bit of difference to any match at any time. And that frankly, Saracens have just been too good.”

No reference to the fact that the team wouldn’t/couldn’t have been that good without throwing money at players from academy level upwards.

He's going down with Saracens then. He's a bit thick if he really does think this. If he doesn't really think that but is sticking to his guns anyway then he's even more stupid. Idiot.