Saracens are relegated!

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TigerBoy1880
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by TigerBoy1880 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:47 am

I’m not sure if this part of the statement has been spoken about on here and there’s too many pages to check but how obnoxious can you get? Nigel Wray speaking like he’s doing everyone a favour by not asking for a review. “For the good of the game”- absolutely ridiculous.

“It would be a costly, time consuming and destabilising exercise so for the good of the game, the Premiership and this wonderful club...we have decided not to appeal but to take our punishment"

RichieB
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by RichieB » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:53 am

TigerBoy1880 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:47 am
I’m not sure if this part of the statement has been spoken about on here and there’s too many pages to check but how obnoxious can you get? Nigel Wray speaking like he’s doing everyone a favour by not asking for a review. “For the good of the game”- absolutely ridiculous.

“It would be a costly, time consuming and destabilising exercise so for the good of the game, the Premiership and this wonderful club...we have decided not to appeal but to take our punishment"
What a fine fellow he is. We should all be very grateful.

voice of the crumbie
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by voice of the crumbie » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:14 pm

RichieB wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:53 am
TigerBoy1880 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:47 am
I’m not sure if this part of the statement has been spoken about on here and there’s too many pages to check but how obnoxious can you get? Nigel Wray speaking like he’s doing everyone a favour by not asking for a review. “For the good of the game”- absolutely ridiculous.

“It would be a costly, time consuming and destabilising exercise so for the good of the game, the Premiership and this wonderful club...we have decided not to appeal but to take our punishment"
What a fine fellow he is. We should all be very grateful.
Let me translate for you. " Even though I've been caught I'm not ashamed by what I've done but have decided not to appeal in case further investigation turns up further misdemeanours."
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

Scuttle
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Scuttle » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:29 pm

As Good As It Gets

Hot_Charlie
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Hot_Charlie » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:55 pm

voice of the crumbie wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:14 pm
RichieB wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:53 am
TigerBoy1880 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:47 am
I’m not sure if this part of the statement has been spoken about on here and there’s too many pages to check but how obnoxious can you get? Nigel Wray speaking like he’s doing everyone a favour by not asking for a review. “For the good of the game”- absolutely ridiculous.

“It would be a costly, time consuming and destabilising exercise so for the good of the game, the Premiership and this wonderful club...we have decided not to appeal but to take our punishment"
What a fine fellow he is. We should all be very grateful.
Let me translate for you. " Even though I've been caught I'm not ashamed by what I've done but have decided not to appeal in case further investigation turns up further misdemeanours."
Because he’s the sort of character, I suspect, who would never admit to being wrong.

Thankfully he’s just a businessman. In other lines of work he could be a dangerous liability.

SthrnTiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by SthrnTiger » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:07 pm

Interesting that Allianz is reconsidering sponsorship, pressure from them is the only way I see a change in behaviour and some actual humility. Though they may just hope the storm blows over.

The Saracens brand is seriously tarnished and winning games and championships won’t change that. The one action that would put an end to this is for Nigel Wray to leave but unlikely to happen given he’s the owner!

voice of the crumbie
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by voice of the crumbie » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:33 am

SthrnTiger wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:07 pm
Interesting that Allianz is reconsidering sponsorship, pressure from them is the only way I see a change in behaviour and some actual humility. Though they may just hope the storm blows over.

The Saracens brand is seriously tarnished and winning games and championships won’t change that. The one action that would put an end to this is for Nigel Wray to leave but unlikely to happen given he’s the owner!
Remember Sir Phillip Green. He tried to brazen his way out of his "troubles" and look what happened to him.
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

Scuttle
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Scuttle » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:19 am

northerntiger wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:47 pm
To be fair, I think the only person who has suggested they might is Eddie Jones. Can they do that, though? I thought there would be rules in place to stop that.
Presumably the players themselves can opt out of England selection for a year (Marler)as a way of loyalty payment for the excellent investment advice they received from the club.
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kpj tiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by kpj tiger » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:46 am

CitizenSmiff wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:30 pm
If Sarries pull their 6N players to fend off relegation we should 100% do the same.
Has this ever happened before? It would be shameful if they did as both us and Newcastle let players play for England last season even with the threat of relegation.

Also I thought all the world cup players could only play 7 prem games this season due to the game time agreements they have with the RFU

ABClub
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by ABClub » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:07 am

If their England stars did opt out Sarries would lose the international player credits, placing them back over the cap by a few hundred thousand more.

The players themselves would lose £25k a start as well. That's £125k over the 6 Nations. Mike Tindall has stated he was on circa £200k a year whilst England captain. Sums up how wages have exploded!

Jones is the only one to suggest they might 'retire' for the 6 Nations anyway.

sapajo
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by sapajo » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:28 am

ABClub wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:07 am

Jones is the only one to suggest they might 'retire' for the 6 Nations anyway.
Surely ultimately it is down to Jones as to which if any Saracens player(s) he "retires" for the six nations? If he decides to do so then that would raise serious impartiality issues and destroy the relationship between England and all the other premiership clubs who supply players to England and are in a relegation battle?
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Tiglon » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:35 pm

ABClub wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:07 am
If their England stars did opt out Sarries would lose the international player credits, placing them back over the cap by a few hundred thousand more.

The players themselves would lose £25k a start as well. That's £125k over the 6 Nations. Mike Tindall has stated he was on circa £200k a year whilst England captain. Sums up how wages have exploded!

Jones is the only one to suggest they might 'retire' for the 6 Nations anyway.
Surely that can't be right re player credits and the cap? What if Ben Youngs and Cole get dropped from the England team this season, are Tigers then over the cap? How could a club plan their salary structure if cap compliance depends on whether players get called up?

In response to Sapajo, any player can decide to no longer play for his country. Remember Joe Marler?

sk 88
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by sk 88 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:56 pm

International player credits are £40k per player named in the EPS (previously publically released, no longer) and £5k per Premiership or European match missed due to EPS deal (so internationals, training camps or compulsory rest periods) up to a limit of £80k per player.
For players not named in the EPS it is £10k per game. All only apply once a player has been with you for three seasons (so no credits for Elliot Daly or Singleton), for other nationalities that miss a Premiership match it is also a £10k credit per game, once again once they have been with you for at least three seasons (so Liam Williams does not generate any but Duncan Taylor would).

All of that is in the published salary cap guidlines.

And yes Wasps did once overrun by c.£10k because a player they weren't expecting got dropped by England. Think the same happened to Quins, or at least they also over ran by a small amount once.
Goooooodeeeeeyyyyy!

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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by Traveller » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:14 pm

ABClub wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:07 am
If their England stars did opt out Sarries would lose the international player credits, placing them back over the cap by a few hundred thousand more.

The players themselves would lose £25k a start as well. That's £125k over the 6 Nations. Mike Tindall has stated he was on circa £200k a year whilst England captain. Sums up how wages have exploded!

Jones is the only one to suggest they might 'retire' for the 6 Nations anyway.
Surely as soon as the Sarries players make themselves eligible for England. The Tigers contingent would have to do the same. We are going to be in a relegation scrap with them. If they have their full contingent of players and ours disappear, I have no doubt we will go down.

BengalTiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation / Grounds for Appeal

Post by BengalTiger » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:14 pm

I think if Saracens players stood down from England duty to save them from relegation, Newcastle would have something to say on the matter, their season imploded when Wilson was on England duty and they went down.

Wray should face a charge of bringing the game into disrepute, I cannot remember a clearer case of an individual soiling the good name of the game!

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