Saracens are relegated!
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation
the only help with investments that a player on that sort of money needs is where to invest it
Re: Saracens Cap Investigation
You're not wrong.GETHIN EXILE wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:14 pm the only help with investments that a player on that sort of money needs is where to invest it
The big flaw in the argument is that they are assisting the most well off.
Personally I believe this salary issue for English clubs is heightened by the rule that an England player must play in England.
If Farrell were to be allowed to go to France to earn silly money then it's space for another such as a (far more talented) Malins.
It's a restriction and clubs don't need restrictions.
Mind you I haven't got a huge amount of sympathy for Exeter either and their moaning about this saga considering that it's rumoured that they will be paying Hogg £550,000 a year.
How can Rowe moan about having to release home grown players when he is spending a silly amount on what is a flakey import in my opinion, and if Hogg is outside of the cap as a marquee then promote someone deserving from within instead and retain those home grown players.
Re: Saracens Cap Investigation
I get Genge's point but I don't know many professions where the 18 / 19 year old newbies don't struggle to make ends meet. It's the same in pretty much any profession - you join on peanuts (and hope to be the next big thing) and if you do make it, guess what, you make a very good living. I don't feel too sorry for the academy kids. I would have swapped my early years for doing what they do in a heartbeat.strawclearer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:46 am I'll just chuck a couple of tweets in...
Guy Mercer: "For what it’s worth I disagree with the cap. If an owner wants to pay people let them pay. Risk for players is huge & people should earn as much as possible while they can. The cap squeezes the middle out of squads so teams load up on low paid kids and superstars."
In reply, Ellis Genge: "Ere ere, no cap - got academy kids earning absolute peanuts not being able to pay for accommodation or food for the month yet expected to be the next big thing and act professionally. It’s madness to me."
Re: Saracens Cap Investigation
All very interesting and worthwhile opinions in terms of the salary cap. However irrelevant so far is the matter in hand is concerned. Which is about one club systematically cheating other clubs (and players) over a prolonged period of time on a legally binding agreement that they have signed.strawclearer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:46 am I'll just chuck a couple of tweets in...
Guy Mercer: "For what it’s worth I disagree with the cap. If an owner wants to pay people let them pay. Risk for players is huge & people should earn as much as possible while they can. The cap squeezes the middle out of squads so teams load up on low paid kids and superstars."
In reply, Ellis Genge: "Ere ere, no cap - got academy kids earning absolute peanuts not being able to pay for accommodation or food for the month yet expected to be the next big thing and act professionally. It’s madness to me."
Saracens cheating is not about player welfare, because they have undermined player welfare at the other eleven clubs by distorting the market in their favour. It is just cheating. Just call it for what it is.
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation
On Mercer's point, I don't agree with him.
Club rugby just isn't a big enough sport to support having no cap.
Club rugby just isn't a big enough sport to support having no cap.
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Saracens Issue Grounds For Appeal...
After hasty consultation with their legal team , and in an effort to gain a quick resolution to any potential controversy Saracens RFC have issued the following statement and formal grounds for appeal against the recent Premiership Rugby ruling with regard to alleged Salary Cap infringements :
We misplaced the decimal point...
The confusion was caused by the uncertainty over Brexit....
Our accountants said it would be 'fine' (no pun intended)...
it wasn't our idea...
We got caught..(how did this get here ? Please remove N.W)..
.
What we actually meant to put in place was ... (to be confirmed at a much later date)...
They just enjoy playing for us...
We thought we were still covered by the 2015 cover up , err payment , err ...
There is a general election on Dec 12...
It wasn't us ..
We forgot to take into account the National Minimum Wage...
If the Salary Cap did not exist the rules could not have been broken (not that they were anyway)...
its all a misunderstanding...
This is victimization....
To follow this through would cause undoubted mental anguish and unnecessary strain to those players being subjected to what we regard as unwarranted and unjust public scrutiny - not to mention the huge financial implications for those involved - of which there is none...
They just needed second jobs to supplement their income...
is that really the time ?...
We will add more corroboration to our case as soon as we are able to (fabricate it )
We misplaced the decimal point...
The confusion was caused by the uncertainty over Brexit....
Our accountants said it would be 'fine' (no pun intended)...
it wasn't our idea...
We got caught..(how did this get here ? Please remove N.W)..
.
What we actually meant to put in place was ... (to be confirmed at a much later date)...
They just enjoy playing for us...
We thought we were still covered by the 2015 cover up , err payment , err ...
There is a general election on Dec 12...
It wasn't us ..
We forgot to take into account the National Minimum Wage...
If the Salary Cap did not exist the rules could not have been broken (not that they were anyway)...
its all a misunderstanding...
This is victimization....
To follow this through would cause undoubted mental anguish and unnecessary strain to those players being subjected to what we regard as unwarranted and unjust public scrutiny - not to mention the huge financial implications for those involved - of which there is none...
They just needed second jobs to supplement their income...
is that really the time ?...
We will add more corroboration to our case as soon as we are able to (fabricate it )
Last edited by kk20gb30 on Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
Re: Saracens Cap Investigation
The impetus for Hogg is the pressure on Rowe from the new money people within Chiefs who want European and local titles. I posted at the beginning of the season that the word was (via my Chiefs ST sibs) they wanted both top players and an international name head coach, and I got laughed at. It rankles with the parvenu posh in Exeter.BFG wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:32 pmYou're not wrong.GETHIN EXILE wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:14 pm the only help with investments that a player on that sort of money needs is where to invest it
The big flaw in the argument is that they are assisting the most well off.
Personally I believe this salary issue for English clubs is heightened by the rule that an England player must play in England.
If Farrell were to be allowed to go to France to earn silly money then it's space for another such as a (far more talented) Malins.
It's a restriction and clubs don't need restrictions.
Mind you I haven't got a huge amount of sympathy for Exeter either and their moaning about this saga considering that it's rumoured that they will be paying Hogg £550,000 a year.
How can Rowe moan about having to release home grown players when he is spending a silly amount on what is a flakey import in my opinion, and if Hogg is outside of the cap as a marquee then promote someone deserving from within instead and retain those home grown players.
Chiefs have half-assed it in getting Hogg.
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation
The revue/appeal won't be the end of it. Newcastle, Bristol and Irish were relegated during the years in question and I
understand are poised to issue their own litigation. They lost millions in consequence and at least Newcastle can claim that their home and away defeats to Saracens contributed greatly to it.
As some action has been taken now (we all knew what was happening). As for fairness? Dean Richards was banned from rugby for three years for "bloodgate" and t it was only for that single offence. How can Wray be considered a fit and proper person to own and operate a Rugby Club when he has been cheating thus for years? Many times worse than Deano's offence? Surely he should be banned from the game entirely and for life? The club should suffer the same fate as Richmond, who's only crime was to became insolvent? The last time I heard, Saracens were over £50 million in debt and yet able to operate as they have been. They are an affront to the game.
understand are poised to issue their own litigation. They lost millions in consequence and at least Newcastle can claim that their home and away defeats to Saracens contributed greatly to it.
As some action has been taken now (we all knew what was happening). As for fairness? Dean Richards was banned from rugby for three years for "bloodgate" and t it was only for that single offence. How can Wray be considered a fit and proper person to own and operate a Rugby Club when he has been cheating thus for years? Many times worse than Deano's offence? Surely he should be banned from the game entirely and for life? The club should suffer the same fate as Richmond, who's only crime was to became insolvent? The last time I heard, Saracens were over £50 million in debt and yet able to operate as they have been. They are an affront to the game.
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Re: Sacacens Issue Grounds For Appeal...
We promise to bring excellent loose leaf tea and an assortment of quality chocolate biscuits to the hearing.
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Re: Sacacens Issue Grounds For Appeal...
Maybe it was all a big Typo......
Like this title
Like this title
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Re: Sacacens Issue Grounds For Appeal...
Grounds for appeal? They'd have more chance issuing grounds for coffee!sam16111986 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:00 pm We promise to bring excellent loose leaf tea and an assortment of quality chocolate biscuits to the hearing.
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation
I think they get plenty of good nutrition from the club as well.Will S wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:56 pmI get Genge's point but I don't know many professions where the 18 / 19 year old newbies don't struggle to make ends meet. It's the same in pretty much any profession - you join on peanuts (and hope to be the next big thing) and if you do make it, guess what, you make a very good living. I don't feel too sorry for the academy kids. I would have swapped my early years for doing what they do in a heartbeat.strawclearer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:46 am I'll just chuck a couple of tweets in...
Guy Mercer: "For what it’s worth I disagree with the cap. If an owner wants to pay people let them pay. Risk for players is huge & people should earn as much as possible while they can. The cap squeezes the middle out of squads so teams load up on low paid kids and superstars."
In reply, Ellis Genge: "Ere ere, no cap - got academy kids earning absolute peanuts not being able to pay for accommodation or food for the month yet expected to be the next big thing and act professionally. It’s madness to me."
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game
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Re: Saracens Issue Grounds For Appeal...
Wray's actual defence of 'Investments aren't income' isn't any less ludicrous than any of the ones listed here!
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Re: Saracens Issue Grounds For Appeal...
From what I've read, he said "investments arentsalary", therefore outside the salary cap. Splitting hairs and trying to get round the salary cap on a technicality. The cap is there to stop a few sugar daddies dominating the Premiership and to stop a death spiral as clubs pay more and more (that they cannot afford) on players, just to keep vaguely competitive. Other clubs generally (I hope) have adhered to the cap as it is seen as necessary for the longer term future of professional rugby in England. By trying to wriggle around it, Wray is putting himself and Sarries above the rest, potentially at the expense of everyone else.CitizenSmiff wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:49 pm Wray's actual defence of 'Investments aren't income' isn't any less ludicrous than any of the ones listed here!
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Re: Saracens Issue Grounds For Appeal...
Cagey Tiger wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:17 pmFrom what I've read, he said "investments aren't salary", therefore outside the salary cap. Splitting hairs and trying to get round the salary cap on a technicality. The cap is there to stop a few sugar daddies dominating the Premiership and to stop a death spiral as clubs pay more and more (that they cannot afford) on players, just to keep vaguely competitive. Other clubs generally (I hope) have adhered to the cap as it is seen as necessary for the longer term future of professional rugby in England. By trying to wriggle around it, Wray is putting himself and Sarries above the rest, potentially at the expense of everyone else.CitizenSmiff wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:49 pm Wray's actual defence of 'Investments aren't income' isn't any less ludicrous than any of the ones listed here!