Saracens are relegated!

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Do we know what the Tax Man thinks of this?

[Leicestertinytiger]

You look at all the squads in the premiership, they roughly have the same makeup give or take with the amount of international players. Then you look at Saracens and their squad is stacked so it never took a genius to work it out.

Funny how Saracens say the punishment is too harsh, yet the Exeter chief and loads of players privately think they should be relegated.

They keep blaming the amount of English internationals but they have internationals of every nationality across their team. The funny thing is in my opinion is they never even had to cheat. You take out some high earners say hypothetically Figallo, Skelton, L Williams and Taylor, they still would have won the league with the players they have.

[POSTIGER]

It smacks of sheer arrogance (not to mention stupidity) that they signed Elliot Daly whilst being investigated.

[Chobbsy]

I am very amused by some of the comments in the press( origin unknown) that the the players involved were unaware and completely innocent, they received the money, either they have too much or are thick. Guessing the extent of the abuse I cannot see how any other premiership club can afford the players involved without a similar scheme. Wrays appeal will succeed.

I’ve got sympathy with the players. If your employer offered you a coinvestment scheme and assured you he’d checked it out with his lawyers and tax accountants and also already declared it to the salary cap manager, are you sure you wouldn’t have taken him up on it?

That said, I never fully bought the idea that Sarries were only doing this to look after their players. The co-investments only seem to be offered to the star players, unless the scope of this actually extends much further than has so far been discovered.

Absolutely, you cannot point the finger at the players, they are not responsible for what other players earn or how much of the cap is or isn't left.

[Knightonian]

As per previous topic if appeal upheld hasn’t Wray conned the tax man and committed fraud

[Goshengareth]

Quote:
I’ve got sympathy with the players. If your employer offered you a coinvestment scheme and assured you he’d checked it out with his lawyers and tax accountants and also already declared it to the salary cap manager, are you sure you wouldn’t have taken him up on it?

Tbh I'm a bit unclear here. As a player wanting to be clean I'd seek some kind of formal assurance this this had been approved by Premiership Rugby and was being fully reported, which I'm assuming didn't happen.

I think some onus should be put on the players in the future that they review the submission being made in respect of their earnings by the club. And if later they are found to have received other payments then they will face a heavy sanction also. They need to have some skin in the game. It is like a tax return and they need to take some ownership for it.

[CrumblingTerrace]

There's one point I'm not clear about in all of this...

What about this season? Are Saracens still spending above the cap?

[Firesafetydave]

There's one point I'm not clear about in all of this...

What about this season? Are Saracens still spending above the cap?

Since the cap includes win bonuses etc they cannot know that until the end of the season, unless it is obscenely obvious...

[Bunchy]

Bunch, how good are your sources, would think the decision would be shared by very few.

As it turns out, pretty good !!!!

[Grimlish]

There's one point I'm not clear about in all of this...

What about this season? Are Saracens still spending above the cap?

Since the cap includes win bonuses etc they cannot know that until the end of the season, unless it is obscenely obvious...

I understand the fine was calculated at a ratio of 3:1 (fine:misdemeanour). That suggests the level of overrun was on average c£600k over the three years covered by the investigation, although I read a figure of c £900k in one article. Salary cap is currently c£7m as discussed earlier in this thread.

Would be pretty obvious to anyone managing those accounts that an overrun was likely, regardless of win bonuses (which are likely a contractual commitment from a player’s viewpoint). Surely they will need to take action ‘in year’ to reduce costs or face a further fine & points deduction?

[wellstiger]

I'd like to pause and take stock.

1) the finding is for this season only. Not consecutively. Therefore Titles won stand.
2) Exeter have lost the chance of titles due to cheating.
3) Newcastle were relegated last season. If points were deducted they would still be a Prem team.
4) I feel for the Sarries supporters they must feel gutted that their team will be labelled cheats.
5) Can the Sarries team honestly say they knew nothing was wrong.Ignorance is no defence?
6) WRAY should take his medicine and resign for the sake of the club.
7) Where is HMRC?
8) Does the ground improvement go ahead- with £5.3m dent can they afford it?
9) Will the appeal be upheld?
10) Can I please have Charlize Theron for Christmas?

[Flash]

You day Exeter missed out on titles, so did Sarries semi opponent. - 35 points last season would have seen them in 10th so Newcastle still relegated. Sarries reporting requirement to Prem rugby being left wanting doesn't mean they are doing anything dodgy tax wise.

[chewbacca]

Points deducted last season would see them not qualifying for the European cup and so their opponents there have been cheated also. Tax wise its the individuals responsibility to ensure they comply with the law. One would hope the players were appropriately advised.

[glenn]

[quote="Jimmy Skitz" post_id=726771 time=1572983041 user_id=7880]
make them nominate a squad that is under the cap, players not named can only play in Europe and ban them from signing new senior pros until they are below the cap again
[/quote]

I can't help but wonder.... All the academy talent sarries have brought through.... Would they be there or would they have chosen say "wasps or wuss" if they weren't as successful. Or the potential of extra monies?
On the flip side, if it's above board, how do they keep all the emerging talent whom they have nurtured?

[daktari]

John Kingston points out that it was Sarries that hovered up Harlequins players when they had reached the cap limit, Highlights the affect on other teams of the cheating