Saracens are relegated!

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chewbacca
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by chewbacca »

One has to question whether their European titles will be withdrawn and presumably that decision is one for that governing body. One could argue that without a squad assembled in breach of the premiership regulations their ability to qualify for and "win" European titles would not have been possible.
Last edited by chewbacca on Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ABClub
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by ABClub »

RagingBull wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:59 am 650k they need to free up
That's before contact increases they'd need to re-sign players. Isiekwe and Lozowski are out of contract, two fantastic young English talents.

I do feel for Sarries fans. Yes, they have got lots of celebration out of titles won whilst cheating the cap but they will be hurting a lot right now. Especially if they lose academy talent they've watched grow and develop over many years, which will surely have to happen.
TomWeston
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by TomWeston »

Jacko27 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:07 pm... Even as a lifelong Tigers supporter none of that damage to what is unquestionably England's premier club brings me any pleasure or satisfaction.
But this finding proves that Saracens are NOT 'unquestionably England's premier club'; they got where they are by cheating, and off the field cheating too!
Big Dai
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Big Dai »

Just hope that we are squeaky clean. This sort of thing usually rakes all the muck up.
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Leicestertinytiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Leicestertinytiger »

Big Dai wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:48 pm Just hope that we are squeaky clean. This sort of thing usually rakes all the muck up.
I was thinking the same, already seen fingers being pointed at other clubs following this being released. Hopefully we have nothing to hide.
loretta
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by loretta »

Big Dai wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:48 pm Just hope that we are squeaky clean. This sort of thing usually rakes all the muck up.
If we've been cheating to improve our situation, we must have been absolutely terrible at it!
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Not a jock
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Not a jock »

Nigel William Wray must be a very busy person being a director of all these companies:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/offi ... pointments

Despite a quick browse through them I couldn’t see any that matched the names of the companies set up for the Vunipolas, Faz, Supermario and Wiggy so presumably he’s “arm’s length” from them to some extent. I don’t have the patience to wade through them all. I did find Wiggy9 elsewhere on the site but no mention of Wray with it:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... 4/officers
CitizenSmiff
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by CitizenSmiff »

Big Dai wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:48 pm Just hope that we are squeaky clean. This sort of thing usually rakes all the muck up.
I've just have a quick look on Companies House and found some interesting stuff- Dan Cole is the company director of a bicycle respraying workshop in Ashford, Ben Youngs is apparently a Trainee Manager at his dad's garden centre in Norfolk, George Ford has a registered LLC called TO THE LINE for which his mum appears to have a controlling interest, and Jordan Taufua has his own promotions company registered with the same accountants as Ellis Genge's property portfolio in Newport. None of which appears in joint interest with the club.
Scuttle
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Scuttle »

wellstiger wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:21 am So in theory how does this work?
Is fine and points deduction the end of the matter?
Do they now field the same squads or do they have to let players go?
Do they "Keep Calm Carry On" and hope their isn't another review? :smt017 :smt017
The Premiership Rugby statement said the sanctions will be suspended if Saracens appeal. Saracens have said they will appeal all findings. So, if it has taken as long as it has for this first phase we can be sure the appeal will last to at least the end of the season. That gives Saracens time to win the Premiership and Champions Cup this seaon, shed some costs in a more measured way and rebuild/repurpose for the next season when sanctions may still be applied depending on the appeal outcome.
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drc_007
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by drc_007 »

chewbacca wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:45 pm One has to question whether their European titles will be withdrawn and presumably that decision is one for that governing body. One could argue that without a squad assembled in breach of the premiership regulations their ability to qualify for and "win" European titles would not have been possible.
There are no salary caps in the European competitions, would be a bit rich if the clubs from other countries complained when they are not restricted by a salary cap.
fleabane
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by fleabane »

fentiger wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:05 am 'Wolfpack' my backside, money talks! Weren't we always accused of 'cheating', now the boot is well and truly on the other foot!
Can imagine they'll get some hostile receptions at certain away grounds!

Yes, and they are in front of The Shed on Saturday!
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Traveller
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller »

Scuttle wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:27 pm
wellstiger wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:21 am So in theory how does this work?
Is fine and points deduction the end of the matter?
Do they now field the same squads or do they have to let players go?
Do they "Keep Calm Carry On" and hope their isn't another review? :smt017 :smt017
The Premiership Rugby statement said the sanctions will be suspended if Saracens appeal. Saracens have said they will appeal all findings. So, if it has taken as long as it has for this first phase we can be sure the appeal will last to at least the end of the season. That gives Saracens time to win the Premiership and Champions Cup this seaon, shed some costs in a more measured way and rebuild/repurpose for the next season when sanctions may still be applied depending on the appeal outcome.
The appeal will be quicker and it can only be on 'an error in law, the decision being irrational of that there has been some procedural unfairness.' Unlikely given the make up of the Sports Resolution team involved.

Beyond belief that people are arguing for them to be given more time to 'get their house in order'. They have systematically undermined the integrity of the league in terms of player recruitment for a decade.

In 2010-2011 they won the Premiership by putting together a squad that wouldn't be called up. Note the England 6N squad of 2010-2011 Club / Player representation.

Tigers 7, Saints 6, Bath 6, Wasps 4, Quins 3, Sale 3, Gloucester 3, Stade Francais 2, Leeds 2 (relegated)
Irish, Toulon and Saracens (Premiership Champions 2010-2011) 1 player each.

Nor did they have players playing for the other Home Nations. No they got into the premiership final by going out of their way not to support the 6 Nations. Now they play the England card. The hypocrisy is extraordinary. Tigers faced those pressure for a decade or more, and Bath. The house should be allowed to burn.
fentiger
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by fentiger »

fleabane wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:45 pm
fentiger wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:05 am 'Wolfpack' my backside, money talks! Weren't we always accused of 'cheating', now the boot is well and truly on the other foot!
Can imagine they'll get some hostile receptions at certain away grounds!

Yes, and they are in front of The Shed on Saturday!
Goodey suggested that, perhaps, Glos fans may like to print some fake money to wave at Saracens. Can't imagine that happening... :smt003
Chobbsy
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Chobbsy »

fentiger wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:00 pm
fleabane wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:45 pm
fentiger wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:05 am 'Wolfpack' my backside, money talks! Weren't we always accused of 'cheating', now the boot is well and truly on the other foot!
Can imagine they'll get some hostile receptions at certain away grounds!

Yes, and they are in front of The Shed on Saturday!
Goodey suggested that, perhaps, Glos fans may like to print some fake money to wave at Saracens. Can't imagine that happening... :smt003
Good news for us at least we won't be bottom this season, I wonder what it will be reduced to after they win their appeal, Can't see them being allowed to be relegated....or is that just me being cynical? ;)
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loretta
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Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by loretta »

Will it be like rugby disciplinary hearings? Plead innocent and risk a greater punishment?

Here's hoping....
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