Saracens are relegated!

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Post Reply
Traveller
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:46 pm

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:20 am

Three games into the new season. WC finished. England players returned to the UK.. 8 months after the investigation was launched.

Nigel Wray will be keen to have the Sports Resolution findings made public. That way Saracens won't have to face unfair cheating allegations, innuendo and suspicion.

Although I suppose the General Election might be a reason for further delay, or Christmas or Boxing Day or New Year, or 6N preparations or Valentine's Day or Black Friday or Bonfire Night, or a new TV contract, or a retrospective change to salary cap arrangements.

Something special is happening at Saracens.

fortysix
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:22 pm

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by fortysix » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:40 am

Presumably in the next couple of days, unless the powers that be have bottled it, Sarries will be massively hit with apparantly a 35 point fine plus having to offload a shed-load of players.
No one outside Barnet will care one jot.
Tigers should work out which players they can foresee would fit into our Club, bearing in mind most if not all are current or future internationals.
Certainly Spencer, Kruis, and how about Barritt ??
Always a star, every which way...
But please, not Lewington

Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2610
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Hot_Charlie » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:47 am

fortysix wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:40 am
Presumably in the next couple of days, unless the powers that be have bottled it, Sarries will be massively hit with apparantly a 35 point fine plus having to offload a shed-load of players.
No one outside Barnet will care one jot.
Tigers should work out which players they can foresee would fit into our Club, bearing in mind most if not all are current or future internationals.
Certainly Spencer, Kruis, and how about Barritt ??
Always a star, every which way...
But please, not Lewington
My money is nothing actually happening this season, as Wray will take it to court immediately that the results are announced. In fact, the lawyers are probably sitting pressing "refresh" on their browsers and emails.

Next summer at the earliest.

Bunchy
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 823
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:02 pm
Location: Berkhamsted

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Bunchy » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:05 am

my sources tell me Sarries are very prepared for the worst - remember it could be more than 35 points deducted too. Had they lost those points last season, they would have finished 10th (still above us !!)

My sources also tell me the announcement is this week and will take effect immediately. Sarries expected to appeal but this will not stop the points deduction. The other 12 clubs have been pushing hard behind the scenes to get this over the line.....
Less is more....

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4437
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Neverland

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by JP14 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:00 pm

Bunchy wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:05 am
my sources tell me Sarries are very prepared for the worst - remember it could be more than 35 points deducted too. Had they lost those points last season, they would have finished 10th (still above us !!)

My sources also tell me the announcement is this week and will take effect immediately. Sarries expected to appeal but this will not stop the points deduction. The other 12 clubs have been pushing hard behind the scenes to get this over the line.....
By other 12 clubs do you mean Prem Clubs plus Newcastle?
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Bunchy
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 823
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:02 pm
Location: Berkhamsted

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Bunchy » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:44 pm

Yes mate
Less is more....

Traveller
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:46 pm

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:23 pm

Bunchy wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:05 am
my sources tell me Sarries are very prepared for the worst - remember it could be more than 35 points deducted too. Had they lost those points last season, they would have finished 10th (still above us !!)

My sources also tell me the announcement is this week and will take effect immediately. Sarries expected to appeal but this will not stop the points deduction. The other 12 clubs have been pushing hard behind the scenes to get this over the line.....
The trouble is If they 'cheated' then it is far worse than a simple X - 35 points: They would have finished 10th.

We know the whole league would have been different from game to game, match to match. It sounds pompous to write that it 'undermines the integrity of the league', but it really does. In so far as it undermines each and every match, recruitment decisions etc. Would Exeter have picked the same side to play Wasps if Sarries were / or weren't picking particular players for particular matches. Would Exeter have bought x player if they could have got y from saracens. If Bath were playing Sarries on a 6N weekend would they have picked the same team if.........that's why IF they have been found to be cheating on a. grand scale. Well personally, I think they should, in an ideal world be thrown out of the competition altogether. That won't happen I know. But..............What happens when they go down to Exeter and Wray sits in the clubhouse after the game...........How much respect can anyone have IF he's found t have been cheating. I repeat IF.

Bunchy
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 823
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:02 pm
Location: Berkhamsted

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Bunchy » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:04 pm

Traveller wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:23 pm
Bunchy wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:05 am
my sources tell me Sarries are very prepared for the worst - remember it could be more than 35 points deducted too. Had they lost those points last season, they would have finished 10th (still above us !!)

My sources also tell me the announcement is this week and will take effect immediately. Sarries expected to appeal but this will not stop the points deduction. The other 12 clubs have been pushing hard behind the scenes to get this over the line.....
The trouble is If they 'cheated' then it is far worse than a simple X - 35 points: They would have finished 10th.

We know the whole league would have been different from game to game, match to match. It sounds pompous to write that it 'undermines the integrity of the league', but it really does. In so far as it undermines each and every match, recruitment decisions etc. Would Exeter have picked the same side to play Wasps if Sarries were / or weren't picking particular players for particular matches. Would Exeter have bought x player if they could have got y from saracens. If Bath were playing Sarries on a 6N weekend would they have picked the same team if.........that's why IF they have been found to be cheating on a. grand scale. Well personally, I think they should, in an ideal world be thrown out of the competition altogether. That won't happen I know. But..............What happens when they go down to Exeter and Wray sits in the clubhouse after the game...........How much respect can anyone have IF he's found t have been cheating. I repeat IF.
extremely valid questions - precisely why Sports Resolutions were brought in to handle this - its complex...........
Less is more....

BigDan50
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:56 pm

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by BigDan50 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:17 pm

Bunch, how good are your sources, would think the decision would be shared by very few.

Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2610
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Hot_Charlie » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:19 pm

A very valid post Traveller. This is the big point; other clubs will have suffered by Saracens unfairly influencing the player market. Players who would have stayed at other clubs; depth of the squad that was only there by massaging the cap. Factors that can lose clubs games, lose them footfall, lose them prize money, put them from making profits to making losses.

It is potentially the rugby equivalent Armstrong, and hence it needs punishing very severely.

Traveller
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:46 pm

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:29 pm

I've felt very strongly about the 'there is something special happening at Saracens' tag line for years. It has in fact been nothing more than a constant 'game playing'.

When Saracens first won the premiership in 2010-2011 they did so with a squad (which if my memory serves me correctly) had been carefully constructed not to have a single player withdrawn for the 6N.

It was remarkable that no journalist called them out at the time. They just ate up the mantra and spewed it out. 'Something special is happening at Saracens.' Well what was 'special' was a 'we will do what we will do and we don't care about anyone else' attitude.

Leeds were relegated that same year. They had two players in the England team. Stade Francais had more players representing England than Saracens.

Fast forward to the 2012 investigation and now 2019 Sports Resolution.

Fantastic team....................................but

Frankers
Tiger Cub
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:22 am
Location: Hinckley

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Frankers » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:55 pm

Hot_Charlie wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:19 pm

It is potentially the rugby equivalent Armstrong, and hence it needs punishing very severely.
I agree 100% with this. They also deserve to have their Championship titles removed.

Bunchy
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 823
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:02 pm
Location: Berkhamsted

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by Bunchy » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:20 am

BigDan50 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:17 pm
Bunch, how good are your sources, would think the decision would be shared by very few.
Big Dan - well, we will see on this one. I trust them and they have been good for me up to now. There is "noise" around the premiership on this for sure - as ever some will be conjecture and guess work, but there is usually a fire when there is smoke. Once this was moved to sports resolutions, it was clear there was a case to answer - question is how bad is the transgression and therefore the punishment. One thing I know for sure is that there are 12 clubs pushing strongly for punishment with no dissenters as per the previous investigation.
Less is more....

wellstiger
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:56 am

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by wellstiger » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:08 am

BT TV and CH5 have recently extolled the virtues of the Sarries squad and done their best to promote the Champions tag.
They have obviously been p.c. and not offered comment regarding the investigation.Although Wray was highlighted in the BT coverage of Sarries game.
If we get a finding prior to General election /Brexit /Christmas/New year/6N/Tour/Next season.
And I bet all Prem clubs will face a points deduction to ease the impact. :smt015 :smt015

strawclearer
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3739
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Saracens Cap Investigation

Post by strawclearer » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:40 am

Andy Goode tweeting: "So the Salary Cap report is due to be announced on Saracens, hearing of a 35 point deduction and a £5million fine....."

@OwenslotTheTimes: "Saracens players called in and told this morning. Imagine getting back from the World Cup and hearing that."
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
Help save the Oceans - #RefuseTheStraw!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests