Wasps v Saints

[Big Dai]

I'm not Welsh.

I know it was a red card under current laws.

Everything was better in the 70s and 80s. Beer was cheaper for a start.

Oink oink!

[northerntiger]

I actually think Dai has a point. Given the emphasis on player safety, if players are allowed to leap, at speed, into the air, injuries will happen, fair contest or not. I can't see any reason why the laws should stipulate that players should only catch the ball with feet, or foot, on the ground.
On a slightly separate note, I had a look at the laws, and can't find any saying you can't jump into a tackle? I remember a winger being penalised got jumping into me years ago

[Mark62]

I actually think Dai has a point. Given the emphasis on player safety, if players are allowed to leap, at speed, into the air, injuries will happen, fair contest or not. I can't see any reason why the laws should stipulate that players should only catch the ball with feet, or foot, on the ground.
On a slightly separate note, I had a look at the laws, and can't find any saying you can't jump into a tackle? I remember a winger being penalised got jumping into me years ago

I don’t disagree with his point. I’m saying his point isn’t valid at the moment because the laws say you can jump.

I don’t know the actual law but I’m fairly sure that it is against the laws to jump to avoid a tackle being made.

Edit having just checked there is no specific law, but it would come under dangerous play

[Big Dai]

I actually think Dai has a point. Given the emphasis on player safety, if players are allowed to leap, at speed, into the air, injuries will happen, fair contest or not. I can't see any reason why the laws should stipulate that players should only catch the ball with feet, or foot, on the ground.
On a slightly separate note, I had a look at the laws, and can't find any saying you can't jump into a tackle? I remember a winger being penalised got jumping into me years ago

I don’t disagree with his point. I’m saying his point isn’t valid at the moment because the laws say you can jump.

I don’t know the actual law but I’m fairly sure that it is against the laws to jump to avoid a tackle being made.

Edit having just checked there is no specific law, but it would come under dangerous play

So player safety is not a valid point?

[Mark62]

I actually think Dai has a point. Given the emphasis on player safety, if players are allowed to leap, at speed, into the air, injuries will happen, fair contest or not. I can't see any reason why the laws should stipulate that players should only catch the ball with feet, or foot, on the ground.
On a slightly separate note, I had a look at the laws, and can't find any saying you can't jump into a tackle? I remember a winger being penalised got jumping into me years ago

I don’t disagree with his point. I’m saying his point isn’t valid at the moment because the laws say you can jump.

I don’t know the actual law but I’m fairly sure that it is against the laws to jump to avoid a tackle being made.

Edit having just checked there is no specific law, but it would come under dangerous play

So player safety is not a valid point?

Please read what I post completely rather than the bit that supports your point view.
Was it dangerous yes it was, was it right to give a red card yes it was, was the Wasps player allowed to jump yes he was, had Collins timed his his run to jump properly, would there have been a red card, no there wouldn’t.

Tbh I’m bored with this now as I suspect are you

[Tigerbeat]

The issue was that Collins did overrun and endangered the Wasps player...…….mistimed and the outcome was a red card. Timed to perfection and the outcome may have been completely different. Collins went straight under the man and his actions were deemed dangerous play.
I am sure that there will be more similar situations during the season with different views and possibly different outcomes.

[Big Dai]

I don’t disagree with his point. I’m saying his point isn’t valid at the moment because the laws say you can jump.

I don’t know the actual law but I’m fairly sure that it is against the laws to jump to avoid a tackle being made.

Edit having just checked there is no specific law, but it would come under dangerous play

So player safety is not a valid point?

You’re verging on trolling now please read what I post completely rather than the bit that supports your point view.
Was it dangerous yes it was, was it right to give a red card yes it was, was the Wasps player allowed to jump yes he was, had Collins timed his his run to jump properly, would there have been a red card, no there wouldn’t.

Tbh I’m bored with this now as I suspect are you

Valid is the word I don't like.

You are missing a point by some distance.

Yes it was dangerous.... Yes
What was the root cause of that danger?
........ That's the point of the post.

[Mark62]

So player safety is not a valid point?

You’re verging on trolling now please read what I post completely rather than the bit that supports your point view.
Was it dangerous yes it was, was it right to give a red card yes it was, was the Wasps player allowed to jump yes he was, had Collins timed his his run to jump properly, would there have been a red card, no there wouldn’t.

Tbh I’m bored with this now as I suspect are you

Valid is the word I don't like.

You are missing a point by some distance.

Yes it was dangerous.... Yes
What was the root cause of that danger?
........ That's the point of the post.

The same can be said for you, I don’t disagree that it can be dangerous but it is allowed, yes it’s the root cause but until the law is changed, along with a number of other dangerous practices, it will continue.
The root cause of this incident, taking it on its own was Collins losing his bearings and causing a dangerous collision

[Tiglon]

Pretty sure Big Dai isn't arguing that it shouldn't be a red card under the current laws.

I think the point is that he feels the laws should be changed if we want the game to be safer.

If jumping into a tackle is deemed dangerous, why isn't jumping into a player trying to catch the ball whether he's mistimed his run or not?

While we're on it, if a tackler gets red for making contact with the opponents head even if it is clearly not intended, why does he not get the same when it is his team mate's head that he connects with as they both try to make the tackle? Happens all the time, often results in concussion and is equally reckless. But we've arbitrarily decided that one reckless and injury causing act is fine while another is severely punished. The only difference is the colour of the jersey of the injured player.

And when a player lifts a teammate at lineout or restart, then drops him and he lands on his back or head, why is that not deemed as reckless or dangerous as when it's done to the opposition?

Should a player not have responsibility for the safety of his teammates as well as his opposition?

[Mark62]

Pretty sure Big Dai isn't arguing that it shouldn't be a red card under the current laws.

I think the point is that he feels the laws should be changed if we want the game to be safer.

If jumping into a tackle is deemed dangerous, why isn't jumping into a player trying to catch the ball whether he's mistimed his run or not?

While we're on it, if a tackler gets red for making contact with the opponents head even if it is clearly not intended, why does he not get the same when it is his team mate's head that he connects with as they both try to make the tackle? Happens all the time, often results in concussion and is equally reckless. But we've arbitrarily decided that one reckless and injury causing act is fine while another is severely punished. The only difference is the colour of the jersey of the injured player.

And when a player lifts a teammate at lineout or restart, then drops him and he lands on his back or head, why is that not deemed as reckless or dangerous as when it's done to the opposition?

Should a player not have responsibility for the safety of his teammates as well as his opposition?

I agree with your post but I would imagine that there is the difference between being reckless and accidental, I.e. you don’t want to injure your team mate.
As for leaping in the air I have no problem with it and the Collins incident is quite rare with players timing their runs better to hit as the catcher lands. What I don’t like is the leg being extended with studs showing as per Odogwu for Sale.

And the player who started this leaping goal keeper style if I remember correctly was a certain Geordan Murphy

[mol2]

Pretty sure Big Dai isn't arguing that it shouldn't be a red card under the current laws.


If jumping into a tackle is deemed dangerous, why isn't jumping into a player trying to catch the ball whether he's mistimed his run or not?

Jumping to catch the ball is not the sole prerogative of the defending side. All are allowed to compete and if they clash in the air that's fair enough providing both are challenging. It's the putting yourself under the jumping player, even accidentally by bad timing that is the penalty offence.

I do think the laws need changing to stop some players treating it more as a long jump than a high jump when competing for the ball and jumping with the knee up and or studs out should be prohibited.

In the past you couldn't call a mark if you took the ball in the air.

[Chobbsy]

Go Saints Go! (unusual words for me to say)
So far, Wasps have no points from this...

I thought the TMO must have been wearing a Wasp shirt

[westwinds31]

Honest question do you know they were available at the time

Not 100% no, but Boyd joined Saints in August 2018, it was announced in January 2018. O’Connor was sacked in September 2018. I don’t think it’s too far off the mark to say he would have been an option when we were looking for a “world class coach”.

So no then purely conjecture on your part, so no real head scratching involved

Having seen your other posts on this thread I see I have to tread carefully. So to clarify:

My view is that Boyd is a top coach. He was superb at the Hurricanes and has moved Saints on significantly in a short period of time. I think we should have made an enquiry to see if he would have been available. It’s possible that he wouldn’t have been, given the timescales listed above. I didn’t actually scratch my head, although I may have done, it was a year or so ago. It’s a saying, the meaning of which is that I would find it confusing why a coach of his calibre wouldn’t be at the very least considered.

Hope that clears things up.

[mol2]

If Saints had got Boyd's signature in Jan for an August start, it would be unlikely he would have been available to us in September and making such an enquirey would be unethical at best.