Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

[RichieB]

White is only 21 and has time to improve and learn. One way to do that is to play in an environment that challenges him and supports him. I saw OTY having a 'chat' with him under the posts after Cardiff's first try. I'm sure that if he doesn't show the development and improvement we undoubtedly all hope for, he'll have to move down the leagues. The chances are he'll show if he will thrive or fail at this level in the next couple of years.
As regards Sam Harrison, I would expect that he could have carried on for another couple of years as 2nd/3rd choice in many PL clubs. As others have said, he has been a great servant for the club, reliable in every aspect of the game. I for one have just thanked him and wished him well for the rest of his life.

[Mark62]

I was very disappointed that Simmons only got 4 minutes on the pitch, why was White left at SH and Simmons stuck on the wing?
We desperately needed to see what Simmons could do at SH, is he back to full fitness, I really cannot see why White played the full 80 mins, most on this forum thought that he was very slow, me included, so why was Simmons not given 15/20 mins at SH? Wonder how the lad felt? Sorry to moan about White but I can see why Shazzam decided to chuck it in. In Whites defence he backed up to cross for his try, well done, it was his best moment, very pleased we won as I was very dubious about the whole of our selection. Thanks GF, TV, and a few more of our team.

Harrison "chucking it in" had nothing to do with rugby and more to do with lifestyle. He wanted to make a change whilst his body was in good condition rather than play another 3 years and to end up like some other players.

Whilst it was a "tongue in cheek" statement by me, if you were a quality scrum half like Sam, and from last season, you become a permanent understudy to White, would you not have yearned for a life in the sun? Similarly, after the snub that young Simmons received yesterday, surprised if he didn't have similar thoughts to Sam. I don't wish to be a White basher, but why with a substitute SH on the bench, why was he allowed to play a full 80 mins, he put us under pressure right from the first minute with that dreadfully telegraphed box kick?

Because that’s what the coaches decision was, and whilst you say it was tongue in cheek, you were wide of the mark with Sam Harrison, it is a decision he has been considering for a while, and initially won’t be playing rugby certainly at a professional level
You do realise these are professional rugby players and not u14s who throw their toys out of the pram and get Dad to come and speak to the coaches, and they will speak with the coaches to look to improve

[BFG]

Harrison "chucking it in" had nothing to do with rugby and more to do with lifestyle. He wanted to make a change whilst his body was in good condition rather than play another 3 years and to end up like some other players.

Whilst it was a "tongue in cheek" statement by me, if you were a quality scrum half like Sam, and from last season, you become a permanent understudy to White, would you not have yearned for a life in the sun? Similarly, after the snub that young Simmons received yesterday, surprised if he didn't have similar thoughts to Sam. I don't wish to be a White basher, but why with a substitute SH on the bench, why was he allowed to play a full 80 mins, he put us under pressure right from the first minute with that dreadfully telegraphed box kick?

Because that’s what the coaches decision was, and whilst you say it was tongue in cheek, you were wide of the mark with Sam Harrison, it is a decision he has been considering for a while, and initially won’t be playing rugby certainly at a professional level
You do realise these are professional rugby players and not u14s who throw their toys out of the pram and get Dad to come and speak to the coaches, and they will speak with the coaches to look to improve

Their Dad's often are a coach!

[LE18]

White is only 21 and has time to improve and learn. One way to do that is to play in an environment that challenges him and supports him. I saw OTY having a 'chat' with him under the posts after Cardiff's first try. I'm sure that if he doesn't show the development and improvement we undoubtedly all hope for, he'll have to move down the leagues. The chances are he'll show if he will thrive or fail at this level in the next couple of years.
As regards Sam Harrison, I would expect that he could have carried on for another couple of years as 2nd/3rd choice in many PL clubs. As others have said, he has been a great servant for the club, reliable in every aspect of the game. I for one have just thanked him and wished him well for the rest of his life.

Simmons also needs time to gain experience, he was on the bench, why was he not given some time at scrum half? How often do you see a SH play 80 mins, I don't get it!

[Mark62]

White is only 21 and has time to improve and learn. One way to do that is to play in an environment that challenges him and supports him. I saw OTY having a 'chat' with him under the posts after Cardiff's first try. I'm sure that if he doesn't show the development and improvement we undoubtedly all hope for, he'll have to move down the leagues. The chances are he'll show if he will thrive or fail at this level in the next couple of years.
As regards Sam Harrison, I would expect that he could have carried on for another couple of years as 2nd/3rd choice in many PL clubs. As others have said, he has been a great servant for the club, reliable in every aspect of the game. I for one have just thanked him and wished him well for the rest of his life.

Simmons also needs time to gain experience, he was on the bench, why was he not given some time at scrum half? How often do you see a SH play 80 mins, I don't get it!

I think we are going round in circles here a little. I understand you don’t get it but it is possible that the coaches wanted to see White play an 80 minute game before the 6 nations, to get a handle on his stamina decision making etc.
You’re right Simmons does need time and maybe he will start in Pau and get to play the majority of if not all, of the game. The coaches will have a plan for these 2 games plus the Bath game and injury permitting will implement it.

Can I also add that the line he took for his try as well as the finish were superb and if that had been De Klerk or Reinhard posters would have been saying why can’t our scrum half do that.
The English disease, very quick to criticise, very slow to praise

[mol2]

Simmons might have got some game time as scrum half but with only 3 backs on the bench bringing him on early wasn't an option (and risky as none of the others could cover scrum half if he got injured and by that time we had used all the other bench backs). Swapping your specialists like fly half and scrum half to early is different to the front rows (where you can bring them back on in the event of injury) so not something you do unless forced or right near the end.

He came on to cover an injured wing. Probably better at that pont to keep white at scrum half than to move a tired player out to the wing. A scrum half on the wing is never ideal (with the exeption of players like Oz) but better to use fresh legs to cope with the Cardiff speedster. We had already used our bench wing so the options were limited.

Better to start him than aim to give him half a game from the bench from a team angle.

[BFG]

I've read comments on here that Simmons has been injured, he is a talented player and as with many a talented player they bring extra but often receive extra (Veainu) from opponents.
He has lots of natural ability from what I have seen.
If he can get on the pitch and stay on it then Simmons is good enough to play for England one day in my opinion.
I do think that it's wise to take care with that talent though, a lot can go wrong and perhaps the coaches are taking care with it!
Murphy knows what natural ability is, he had enough of it himself!
White didn't have the best game and was better when he was given less to do which did sort of limit Leicester's game with more going through Ford, fortunately that suited as Cardiff lost backs to injury and lost their shape somewhat and so a winning game kind of fell into place.

[JP14]

One of Simmons best games in a Tigers shirt was at fullback against Bath in the then-AWC in 2017, like Oz a great scrumhalf that can play in the backfield but hopefully his gob is smaller . I agree with BFG if he can return to full fitness a future England international.

[johnthegriff]

Due to injury Simmons has not played very much over the last couple of years, when he has played he has looked promising, White did not have his best game last Saturday but has enough good games behind him to convince me he has a good future in the game. The injuries and changes in our backs against Cardiff was clearly the reason why White stayed on probably a little longer than was planned. In my opinion Sam H was still our second best 9 but has made things easier for the club by electing to retire and creating space and game time for our young scrum halves who otherwise might have moved elsewhere.

[LE18]

OK I give up, I still think Simmons should have had time at SH, in fact I would have started him.

[Cardiff Tig]

OK I give up, I still think Simmons should have had time at SH, in fact I would have started him.

It's difficult to develop two young players at once though. White will have gained a lot from staying on and turning the game around (not that this was all down to him of course). He's not exactly at the stage where if he has a bad 40 he should be replaced without that having consequences. He needs to learn how to improve in an actual match scenario. If it was BY on then I would agree that he could be subbed off at 50 mins and let the replacement have a decent run.

[Mark62]

OK I give up, I still think Simmons should have had time at SH, in fact I would have started him.

Ok and what would have been your reasoning for this, given he has played very little rugby and this was a game we needed to win.

As a matter of interest can I ask how much rugby you’ve seen Simmons play, as you seem to be such a big advocate of his

[JGT57]

Shame to see Matthew Morgan’s season over after his injury against Rigers on Saturday. I thought was very lively and caused us some problems

[fentiger]

OK I give up, I still think Simmons should have had time at SH, in fact I would have started him.

You and me both

[Mark62]

Shame to see Matthew Morgan’s season over after his injury against Rigers on Saturday. I thought was very lively and caused us some problems

A very fine player who has given better defences than Tigers big issues.

Should have got more Welsh caps possibly another who’s lack of physical size was viewed as a handicap