Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

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jgriffin
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by jgriffin »

With BFG here, told you Cardiff backs would be good. Would be far happier if we'd put 30 on them in the first half using our strongest.
This was either very confident from GM or a lucky roll of the dice. If the former, looks good for 6N.
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by OakhamTiger32 »

Robespierre wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:33 pm Any win next week would be good to secure a home QF. Bordeaux, Bristol and Toulon seem to have their places in the QFs and I think that Tigers could be overtaken by Edinburgh (needs verifying). There will be the usual selection discussions whether or not to send the strongest side possible to beat Pau, whose home form this season has been a bit iffy.
EDI are on 16 after 5 games and we are on 22. Pretty sure the win today has guaranteed us a home QF. Next week will determine whether we are 3rd or 4th seed depending on our result away to Pau and Bordeaux-Begles’ result away to Wasps.

We could in theory get overtaken by Castres if they get a BP win away next Fri against Worcester and we fail to pick up anything in our match.

Bristol and Toulon likely to be top 2 then Tigers and Bordeaux-Begles 3 & 4. We will know about Castres and Worcester before our match on Sat so we will know what is required before KO.
Last edited by OakhamTiger32 on Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mark62
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by Mark62 »

Robespierre wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:33 pm Any win next week would be good to secure a home QF. Bordeaux, Bristol and Toulon seem to have their places in the QFs and I think that Tigers could be overtaken by Edinburgh (needs verifying). There will be the usual selection discussions whether or not to send the strongest side possible to beat Pau, whose home form this season has been a bit iffy.
We can’t be over taken by Edinburgh, the pool yet to be decided is Castres, Worcester, who play at Worcester on Friday. Lots of permutations but if Worcester win and Castres get nothing we are fourth seed, if Castres win with 4 points it will depend on points difference unless we get something in Pau. If they win with 5 points we will need to get something in Pau and again it could come down to points difference
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by Robespierre »

OakhamTiger32 wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:40 pm
Robespierre wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:33 pm Any win next week would be good to secure a home QF. Bordeaux, Bristol and Toulon seem to have their places in the QFs and I think that Tigers could be overtaken by Edinburgh (needs verifying). There will be the usual selection discussions whether or not to send the strongest side possible to beat Pau, whose home form this season has been a bit iffy.
I think EDI are on 16 after 5 games and we are on 22. Pretty sure the win today has guaranteed us a home QF. Next week will determine whether we are 3rd or 4th seed depending on our result away to Pau and Bordeaux-Begles’ result away to Wasps.

We could in theory get overtaken by Castres if they get a BP win away next Fri against Worcester and we fail to pick up anything in our match.

Bristol and Toulon likely to be top 2 then Tigers and Bordeaux-Begles 3 & 4. We will know about Castres and Worcester before our match on Sat so we will know what is required before KO.
Thank you for the clarification OT.
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by Mark62 »

fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:08 pm
Jimmy Skitz wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:52 pm
fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:43 pm

Indeed, so my question: why is Simmonds not worthy of at least 20 mins?
who says he's not? there is no law saying the 9 must be replaced after an hour
My opinion, which is probably worthless, is that the Tigers game was crying out to be sped up. The ball was available at the base of the ruck on countless occasions whilst White spent time impersonating a windmill and/or prevaricating what to actually do!
Yes, he has some strengths but an awful lot of weaknesses.
Unless the ball is available at the base of the ruck within 2 seconds the opposition defence will be in place.
I’ll say again the speed of ball from the 9 depends on how quickly the ball comes from the forwards.
When there was quick ball today White was moving it quickly and accurately.
Btw that’s fact not opinion
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by fentiger »

Mark62 wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:50 pm
fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:08 pm
Jimmy Skitz wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:52 pm

who says he's not? there is no law saying the 9 must be replaced after an hour
My opinion, which is probably worthless, is that the Tigers game was crying out to be sped up. The ball was available at the base of the ruck on countless occasions whilst White spent time impersonating a windmill and/or prevaricating what to actually do!
Yes, he has some strengths but an awful lot of weaknesses.
Unless the ball is available at the base of the ruck within 2 seconds the opposition defence will be in place.
I’ll say again the speed of ball from the 9 depends on how quickly the ball comes from the forwards.
When there was quick ball today White was moving it quickly and accurately.
Btw that’s fact not opinion
Not from where I was watching he wasn't. Also fact!
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by Mark62 »

fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:54 pm
Mark62 wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:50 pm
fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:08 pm

My opinion, which is probably worthless, is that the Tigers game was crying out to be sped up. The ball was available at the base of the ruck on countless occasions whilst White spent time impersonating a windmill and/or prevaricating what to actually do!
Yes, he has some strengths but an awful lot of weaknesses.
Unless the ball is available at the base of the ruck within 2 seconds the opposition defence will be in place.
I’ll say again the speed of ball from the 9 depends on how quickly the ball comes from the forwards.
When there was quick ball today White was moving it quickly and accurately.
Btw that’s fact not opinion
Not from where I was watching he wasn't. Also fact!
Well I suggest you watch it again, and jump down off the anti White band wagon, it’s getting almost as boring as the anti Youngs one.
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by Mark62 »

jgriffin wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:38 pm With BFG here, told you Cardiff backs would be good. Would be far happier if we'd put 30 on them in the first half using our strongest.
This was either very confident from GM or a lucky roll of the dice. If the former, looks good for 6N.
Why can’t credit be given to coaches for turning things round at half time, and yes you were right about their backs although Adams was on the wing not 13 as listed
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by Mark62 »

Anyone else notice how good Fords restarts were today. Still landing on the 22 but much more height and allowed for competition.
Shame the two penalties he kicked dead, but the 2 drop goals were fantastic and they say it’s a dying art
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by fentiger »

Mark62 wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:57 pm
fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:54 pm
Mark62 wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:50 pm

Unless the ball is available at the base of the ruck within 2 seconds the opposition defence will be in place.
I’ll say again the speed of ball from the 9 depends on how quickly the ball comes from the forwards.
When there was quick ball today White was moving it quickly and accurately.
Btw that’s fact not opinion
Not from where I was watching he wasn't. Also fact!
Well I suggest you watch it again, and jump down off the anti White band wagon, it’s getting almost as boring as the anti Youngs one.
I'm not anti White per se the point is if Simmons isn't given game time now he's injury free (pro rata to White) how will we know if he's up to the job or, heaven forbid, better than White? I don't have a band wagon to jump on, but my eyes tell me there are plenty of 9's around the country who are a whole lot quicker that if either of these aren't quick enough we need to look at.
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by Tiglon »

There is also the issue of the players outside him being ready. If they aren't in position then flinging it out pronto will only result in being tackled behind the gain line. I think it's a little early in White's career to judge him as being utterly useful or a complete success. For me, he looks very promising. Simmons deserves a chance too and I hope he gets some game time over the next couple of months.

Two matches in a row now a lot of us have questioned Murphy's selections, and again he has been vindicated. Even if we hadn't won I feel that the selection was a good one. A decent performance from a team of players, many of whom had not played together before - it will only improve our chances during the 6N.

I'm still a little wary of the excitement about Lewis. Yes, he can run like Tom Croft, but he needs to be able to do the nuts and bolts of the flanker's role too and I feel that like Olowofela he is too lightweight. Hopefully he learnt a lot from facing Navidi today.

I would play a similar team against Pau, probably resting the first teamers who were starting today and throwing in a few of the others who had the weekend off. I would not be surprised though if we send more of a 1st choice team - there's always the danger going to France with a load of kids that you might get stuffed, and that's not going to help anyone's development. Taufua and Lavanini would be on my teamsheet to give that physicality and experience in the forwards.
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by OakhamTiger32 »

Tiglon wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:09 pm
Two matches in a row now a lot of us have questioned Murphy's selections, and again he has been vindicated. Even if we hadn't won I feel that the selection was a good one. A decent performance from a team of players, many of whom had not played together before - it will only improve our chances during the 6N.
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by Robespierre »

fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:08 pm
Jimmy Skitz wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:52 pm
fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:43 pm

Indeed, so my question: why is Simmonds not worthy of at least 20 mins?
who says he's not? there is no law saying the 9 must be replaced after an hour
My opinion, which is probably worthless, is that the Tigers game was crying out to be sped up. The ball was available at the base of the ruck on countless occasions whilst White spent time impersonating a windmill and/or prevaricating what to actually do!
Yes, he has some strengths but an awful lot of weaknesses.
Don’t think that your opinion is worthless. Everyone has their own points of view that should be respected. I didn’t see the game so can’t offer an opinion but please don’t stop giving yours!
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by Mark62 »

fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:07 pm
Mark62 wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:57 pm
fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:54 pm

Not from where I was watching he wasn't. Also fact!
Well I suggest you watch it again, and jump down off the anti White band wagon, it’s getting almost as boring as the anti Youngs one.
I'm not anti White per se the point is if Simmons isn't given game time now he's injury free (pro rata to White) how will we know if he's up to the job or, heaven forbid, better than White? I don't have a band wagon to jump on, but my eyes tell me there are plenty of 9's around the country who are a whole lot quicker that if either of these aren't quick enough we need to look at.
I agree about Simmons, and I would hope he will get a start next week, he is going to need it if Lenny is away with England.
I and others have tried to point out that other clubs packs produce quicker ball, thus the 9 uses it quicker. White did this a lot today, and our forwards are getting better.
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Re: Tigers vs Cardiff - 12th January 2020

Post by speedski »

Mark62 wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:50 pm
fentiger wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:08 pm
Jimmy Skitz wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:52 pm

who says he's not? there is no law saying the 9 must be replaced after an hour
My opinion, which is probably worthless, is that the Tigers game was crying out to be sped up. The ball was available at the base of the ruck on countless occasions whilst White spent time impersonating a windmill and/or prevaricating what to actually do!
Yes, he has some strengths but an awful lot of weaknesses.
Unless the ball is available at the base of the ruck within 2 seconds the opposition defence will be in place.
I’ll say again the speed of ball from the 9 depends on how quickly the ball comes from the forwards.
When there was quick ball today White was moving it quickly and accurately.
Btw that’s fact not opinion
In the first half White was atrociously slow at the breakdown. It had nothing to do with the speed of the ball from the forwards - not in a million years! He kept shepherding in more before picking it up and kicking it away yet again.

Case in point, the forwards delivered the ball at the same speed throughout the game and yet the second half from White was much faster than the first. His first action, stalling at the clear out and completely coming undone as Clancy told him HE had taken the ball back in the 22 very nearly led to a try for CB in the first few minutes.

I am glad White clearly had a talking to at half time - he really needs to stop kicking away ball too - we had enough in the backs to cause problems, so did CB, but the key difference was CB hardly kicked the ball away at all throughout the 80 minutes, Tigers the opposite.

White can be a great player for us, of that I have no doubt, but the idea that its somehow the forwards fault is just ridiculous. Even Ford was on his case throughout the second half, notably keeping him up to speed and pushing on.

Finally worth mentioning was the lack of offside being blown today - it was just ridiculous!
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