Nigel Wray Gawn

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Noggs
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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by Noggs » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:26 am

teds wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:05 am
I’ve heard several people talk about the “innovations” and “everything” Wray has done for the game.
At risk of starting a pythonesque romans sketch, can someone suggest what Wray has ever done for rugby?
Drag the game's reputation for fair play through the mud :smt017

What I find strange is that in the case of 'Bloodgate' the guilty person was banned from any involvement in the game for a significant period of time. Clearly where money is concerned, the RFU did not see this as an option.
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teds
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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by teds » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:36 am

BigDan50 wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:23 am
What has Wray done for rugby.
Financed Saracens through the good and bad times.
Built an academy that has supplied lots of players for England.
Supported charities connected not only with Saracens but many others not connected to Saracens.
Player welfare has always been top of his list and has always cared for the Saracens players.
Apart from that not much.
Silly question.
Did you really have to put “silly question”?

Anyway, the things you list are nothing that the owners of pretty much every rugby club doesn’t also do, except that it benefits his own club, so not really of benefit to anyone else.

I think of Wasps have done a lot for Help the Heroes and Get Busy Living, but I am not aware of the “many” charities that Wray contributes to. Perhaps you could elaborate?

It’s an opportunity for you to redress the balance, if he supports many charities then it’s fair enough to tell us about it.

One innovation may be the school, but my concern has always been what happens to the school when he withdraws funding.

I was hopeful his concussion study with players having head mounted accelerometers taped behind their ears might have been for the good of the game, but that seems to be a missed opportunity.

Bunchy
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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by Bunchy » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:42 am

DingDong wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:07 am
Saracens were found guilty of administrative errors and not for breaching the salary cap (fact).

Not true - they were found guilty of breaching the salary cap. That's a fact. How much and to who has not been disclosed - but be clear they were found guilty of a breach. The fact that they counted investments as non salary and did not declare them is also fact - although whether you count that as an admin error or connivance is probably down to the individual.
Less is more....

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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by WhitecapTiger » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:43 am

teds wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:05 am
At risk of starting a pythonesque sketch,
Are there any Saracens supporters here today?

I think there might be, masquerading beneath beards..... :smt005 :smt005

All I said was that meagre punishment was sufficient for the crimes.....
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

teds
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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by teds » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:45 pm

WhitecapTiger wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:43 am
teds wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:05 am
At risk of starting a pythonesque sketch,
Are there any Saracens supporters here today?

I think there might be, masquerading beneath beards..... :smt005 :smt005

All I said was that meagre punishment was sufficient for the crimes.....
Hehe, if you meant me, I am no Saracens fan. I was merely trying to well temper an honest question.

I saw a tweet this morning from Stuart Barnes another journalist who was acting like we should all be grateful for everything Wray has done. As far as I can see his net contribution is in the negative, but I am open to being informed otherwise.

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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by WhitecapTiger » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:41 pm

teds wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:45 pm
WhitecapTiger wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:43 am
teds wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:05 am
At risk of starting a pythonesque sketch,
Are there any Saracens supporters here today?

I think there might be, masquerading beneath beards..... :smt005 :smt005

All I said was that meagre punishment was sufficient for the crimes.....
Hehe, if you meant me, I am no Saracens fan. I was merely trying to well temper an honest question.

I saw a tweet this morning from Stuart Barnes another journalist who was acting like we should all be grateful for everything Wray has done. As far as I can see his net contribution is in the negative, but I am open to being informed otherwise.
Nah, not you teds :smt003 :smt023

I stopped giving Barnes any time a long time ago. I do wonder though, would he have that opinion if it had been Bath that were cheated out of Premiership final wins.....
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

BengalTiger
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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by BengalTiger » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:06 pm

Wray should have been charged with bringing the game into disrepute and I still do not know why he was not, there has been too much brushing the dirt under the carpet, right from the cover up back in 2015.
We all suspected Saracens have been cheating for years, even back when they signed up all those SA players for peanuts through some shady SA business tie in, the smell was overpowering but no one wanted to open that can of worms either, look where it has taken us.
The lack of honesty from the administrators is nearly as bad as the dishonesty from Wray.

To see Griffeths back really is giving the finger to the rest of the rugby community!

Bristol Tiger
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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by Bristol Tiger » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:23 pm

BigDan50 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:00 pm
What would happen if we were caught manipulating the cap, would that be ok?
Definitely not OK - as that would show the incompetency of the club is even greater than we all think. After all, Saracens manipulated the cap and then won stuff; if we have manipulated the cap and ended up second bottom of the table (again) - that would be gross incompetence on a scale never imagined ... :smt003

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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by Noggs » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:34 pm

BengalTiger wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:06 pm
Wray should have been charged with bringing the game into disrepute and I still do not know why he was not, there has been too much brushing the dirt under the carpet, right from the cover up back in 2015.
We all suspected Saracens have been cheating for years, even back when they signed up all those SA players for peanuts through some shady SA business tie in, the smell was overpowering but no one wanted to open that can of worms either, look where it has taken us.
The lack of honesty from the administrators is nearly as bad as the dishonesty from Wray.

To see Griffeths back really is giving the finger to the rest of the rugby community!
Could not agree more.

I suspension of at least two years from any involvement in the game was the minimum for cheating which was far far worse than 'Bloodgate' and if that presents a big problem for Saracens then so be it. I understand that the rules don't allow for the taking away of honors already obtained, a rule that needs to change, but they should not be able to continue to take advantage of their ill gotten gains by going on to gain more silverware without root and branch changes.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

Crofty
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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by Crofty » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:33 pm

Noggs wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:34 pm
BengalTiger wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:06 pm
Wray should have been charged with bringing the game into disrepute and I still do not know why he was not, there has been too much brushing the dirt under the carpet, right from the cover up back in 2015.
We all suspected Saracens have been cheating for years, even back when they signed up all those SA players for peanuts through some shady SA business tie in, the smell was overpowering but no one wanted to open that can of worms either, look where it has taken us.
The lack of honesty from the administrators is nearly as bad as the dishonesty from Wray.

To see Griffeths back really is giving the finger to the rest of the rugby community!
Could not agree more.

I suspension of at least two years from any involvement in the game was the minimum for cheating which was far far worse than 'Bloodgate' and if that presents a big problem for Saracens then so be it. I understand that the rules don't allow for the taking away of honors already obtained, a rule that needs to change, but they should not be able to continue to take advantage of their ill gotten gains by going on to gain more silverware without root and branch changes.
Perhaps Wray's "retirement" is a part of the punishment; he was allowed to leave under his own steam and save some face rather than be declared to be not a fit and proper person?
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by Tiglon » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:08 pm

Bunchy wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:32 am
I think (know) the main concern is that the players who received "investments" as supplements to their salaries still have those investments - therefore they should still be counted against them in terms of salary. So, if player A receives a house, it's not a one off - its a continuing asset that he has received and therefore should be counted in each season he is still a player....

Some players bought a lot of properties and therefore will be receiving either rent or will have sold and this too, should count against them.

Whether they (the activists who are asking for this season to be reviewed mid season) can make it stick is another matter
Ok, so if Player A receives a salary and puts £x of it in the bank. Next season the money is still in the bank so it's still an asset and it should count again for the salary cap? Come on now, we're getting more than a little ridiculous.

A others have said, it's time to move on. Caught out, punished. The bitterness is just embarrassing.

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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by Hot_Charlie » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:23 pm

BigDan50 wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:01 am
Totally agree with DingDong, get over it and move on, Nigel Wray is a top rugby man who has helped and supported many rugby players and charities.
So did Lance Armstrong. So do many people, compared to their relative incomes. It doesn’t make him a saint and certainly doesn’t excuse little “administrative errors” that crept into the rugby business.

Good job they didn’t creep in elsewhere.

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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by Tiglon » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:30 pm

Hot_Charlie wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:23 pm
BigDan50 wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:01 am
Totally agree with DingDong, get over it and move on, Nigel Wray is a top rugby man who has helped and supported many rugby players and charities.
So did Lance Armstrong. So do many people, compared to their relative incomes. It doesn’t make him a saint and certainly doesn’t excuse little “administrative errors” that crept into the rugby business.

Good job they didn’t creep in elsewhere.
To be fair, there's a whole world of possibilities between being a saint and the satanic figure that some people portray him as.

You're right, none of that excuses the "administrative errors", hence the punishment.

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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by Hot_Charlie » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:56 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:30 pm
Hot_Charlie wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:23 pm
BigDan50 wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:01 am
Totally agree with DingDong, get over it and move on, Nigel Wray is a top rugby man who has helped and supported many rugby players and charities.
So did Lance Armstrong. So do many people, compared to their relative incomes. It doesn’t make him a saint and certainly doesn’t excuse little “administrative errors” that crept into the rugby business.

Good job they didn’t creep in elsewhere.
To be fair, there's a whole world of possibilities between being a saint and the satanic figure that some people portray him as.

You're right, none of that excuses the "administrative errors", hence the punishment.
Exactly. He’s done many good things. He also appeared to have cheated, or attempted to gain an advantage, or gained a potential advantage by poor administration (odd for such a successful businessman).

Twice.

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Re: Nigel Wray Gawn

Post by BigDan50 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:05 pm

Is cheating on the field the same as cheating off the field?

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