Saints away - Saturday 30th November

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fentiger
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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by fentiger » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:54 pm

westwinds31 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:49 pm
The top sides are playing a brand of rugby that has hard runners but look to off load and keep the ball alive. We don’t do that - I remember a Genge off load but that was it. Tie in defenders and then exploit the space out wide. Why can’t we do that ? Either the coaches are telling them to use one out runners or the players are doing that themselves. We’re getting front foot ball....our scrum is ok.
This is what I see as well. Hence why I think it's indefensible for Youngs, in particular, to put boot to ball so much. That is akin to kamikaze tactics when you have a monster trucking straight back at you :smt017

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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by BFG » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:19 pm

Tigerbeat wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:12 pm
The biggest difference between the two teams yesterday was that Saints were playing with confidence and Tigers did not have the same confidence. Some wins must be ground out to raise the confidence levels within the squad.
Also Nayavoro was causing problems every time he had the ball and he is a very special player with good hand skills. I do not see many teams coming away with much from Franklin Gardens this season.
As a Leicester viewer of many years it's pretty shocking to me to read Nayavoro described as a special player given how much ball Leicester kicked to him and how much space he was given.
Leicester had two of the hardest running centres around in their midfield and yet Leicester gave Nayavoro more ball.
Just unbelievable!

fentiger
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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by fentiger » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:41 pm

BFG wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:19 pm
As a Leicester viewer of many years it's pretty shocking to me to read Nayavoro described as a special player given how much ball Leicester kicked to him and how much space he was given.
Leicester had two of the hardest running centres around in their midfield and yet Leicester gave Nayavoro more ball.
Just unbelievable!
Precisely! And in so doing we made him look far better than he actually is, yes he does possess some skill but most of his attributes are related to size. Is he any good with players running at him? Sadly Tigers were never going to find that out!

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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by drc_007 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:42 pm

fentiger wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:54 pm
westwinds31 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:49 pm
The top sides are playing a brand of rugby that has hard runners but look to off load and keep the ball alive. We don’t do that - I remember a Genge off load but that was it. Tie in defenders and then exploit the space out wide. Why can’t we do that ? Either the coaches are telling them to use one out runners or the players are doing that themselves. We’re getting front foot ball....our scrum is ok.
This is what I see as well. Hence why I think it's indefensible for Youngs, in particular, to put boot to ball so much. That is akin to kamikaze tactics when you have a monster trucking straight back at you :smt017
Youngs does not do this for England, and other Tigers players have the same kicking tactics. It can only be enforced by Tigers coaching staff?

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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by DeadlyDunc » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:23 am

I hate to say it but it looks to me like they recruited and planned to play a certain attractive type of rugby as evidenced in the early PRC games but have reverted to a sarries “get rid of the ball as much as possible” brand when results went downhill and a few players were injured.

Unfortunately, I don’t think we have the players in key positions for that sarries style game, coupled with the defensive speed or quality/discipline to suffocate the opposition to make it work.

As I’ve said elsewhere the team looks like it is caught between two stools (maybe more!) and we are left without any obvious style, cohesive plan or performance.

All of which is quite worrying to be honest!

Tiglon
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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by Tiglon » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:29 am

It doesn't look like all the aimless kicking is a plan. But every time they hold onto the ball for more than one phase all semblance of organisation has disappeared, no one has a clue what they're doing or where they're supposed to be, so the only option remaining is to hoof it.

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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by RichieB » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:01 am

Tiglon wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:29 am
It doesn't look like all the aimless kicking is a plan. But every time they hold onto the ball for more than one phase all semblance of organisation has disappeared, no one has a clue what they're doing or where they're supposed to be, so the only option remaining is to hoof it.
Kicking is absolutely an important part of the game tactically. The issue is the quality of the kicking. Kick to touch if in our own 22 to relieve pressure on our own try line and get time to re-set. Keep deep into the opponents half and follow up with a good chase to gain territory. Grubber kick down the line to pin them back to their own line and aim to turn over possession. Kick to winger or full back to chase into gaps.

There is no point kicking if it doesn't gain territory or present or prevent an opportunity to score.

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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by Mark62 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:04 am

RichieB wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:01 am
Tiglon wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:29 am
It doesn't look like all the aimless kicking is a plan. But every time they hold onto the ball for more than one phase all semblance of organisation has disappeared, no one has a clue what they're doing or where they're supposed to be, so the only option remaining is to hoof it.
Kicking is absolutely an important part of the game tactically. The issue is the quality of the kicking. Kick to touch if in our own 22 to relieve pressure on our own try line and get time to re-set. Keep deep into the opponents half and follow up with a good chase to gain territory. Grubber kick down the line to pin them back to their own line and aim to turn over possession. Kick to winger or full back to chase into gaps.

There is no point kicking if it doesn't gain territory or present or prevent an opportunity to score.
I do agree that the tactic used to kick long down the centre of the park is one widely used these days. It is dependent though on the defensive line coming up flat and quickly and first time tackles being made, rather than being stepped or smashed out of the way

Tiglon
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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by Tiglon » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:10 am

Mark62 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:04 am
RichieB wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:01 am
Tiglon wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:29 am
It doesn't look like all the aimless kicking is a plan. But every time they hold onto the ball for more than one phase all semblance of organisation has disappeared, no one has a clue what they're doing or where they're supposed to be, so the only option remaining is to hoof it.
Kicking is absolutely an important part of the game tactically. The issue is the quality of the kicking. Kick to touch if in our own 22 to relieve pressure on our own try line and get time to re-set. Keep deep into the opponents half and follow up with a good chase to gain territory. Grubber kick down the line to pin them back to their own line and aim to turn over possession. Kick to winger or full back to chase into gaps.

There is no point kicking if it doesn't gain territory or present or prevent an opportunity to score.
I do agree that the tactic used to kick long down the centre of the park is one widely used these days. It is dependent though on the defensive line coming up flat and quickly and first time tackles being made, rather than being stepped or smashed out of the way
Exactly. Kicking when you're not organised means no kick chase, resulting in the opposition running it back at you and maintaining the pressure.

Hoofing it as a last resort when there's no chase and the defensive line doesn't get in place is very different from intelligent kicking when the team is organised and you gain territory.

If the rest of your team are all over the place, get it off the pitch to allow them to regroup. Don't kick it directly to the oppositions biggest threat and allow him a good run up at your defensive disarray.

BFG
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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by BFG » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:12 am

Taute and Tuilagi aren't made for kicking it away and pressing.
With these two Leicester should in theory be one of the best sides at playing their way and sucking sides in for the speedsters to prosper in space.

fentiger
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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by fentiger » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:14 am

Still a deafening silence on social media from both club (apart from the usual claptrap) and players! More team orders or sheer embarrassment?

mol2
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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by mol2 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:15 am

Our defensive line is slow and far from flat.

Some have said it's Manu flying out of the line.

Look at the England players - they are all rushing forward with pace and intent- the problem is that the others aren't and are just ambling forward. More dog legs than the Quorn hunt!

The clue is in the name - rush defence/blitz defence. Some of the rest look like they are still using a drift defence, hoping that they can usher the ball carrier towards someone else rather than trust themselves to make the tackle.

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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by happywomble » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:55 am

Looks like the injury to Holmes will rule him out for six weeks. TV and Olowofela back soon though

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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by fortysix » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:52 pm

Who would you rather have ??
Olafewla 10 stone or Nayaravoro 20 stone ? Sums up half the Tigers these days. Especially the blinking locks and back row, bar Thompson.
Back in the long distant past, the only lightweight was Les flipping Cusworth. Varndell at least scored tries for fun.
Now our recent squads are mainly Championship material with a number of soon to be ex Internationals and positively about a dozen that would have featured in the halycon days.

Mark62
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Re: Saints away - Saturday 30th November

Post by Mark62 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:21 pm

fortysix wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:52 pm
Who would you rather have ??
Olafewla 10 stone or Nayaravoro 20 stone ? Sums up half the Tigers these days. Especially the blinking locks and back row, bar Thompson.
Back in the long distant past, the only lightweight was Les flipping Cusworth. Varndell at least scored tries for fun.
Now our recent squads are mainly Championship material with a number of soon to be ex Internationals and positively about a dozen that would have featured in the halycon days.
Size is immaterial if you’re good enough. Chesnan Kolbe and Shane Williams to name 2.
I would also add the Lavanini was one of our best if not best player on Saturday. Admittedly Cole and Thompson apart he didn’t have much competition

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