The World Cup Final

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Tiglon
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by Tiglon » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:43 am

BFG wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:37 am
Grimlish wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:50 pm
A shake up is afoot...

“I tell you what happens to teams – they evolve,” Jones said. “Some guys will lose desire, some guys will lose fitness, some guys will get injuries and there’ll be young guys come through. So this team is finished now. There will be a new team made. We’ll make a new team for the Six Nations and that new team for the Six Nations will be the basis of going to the next World Cup.“
And in four years time England will likely have an outside centre at full back grasping at thin air and a smirking skipper who misses important kicks with 12 on his back being made to look like a lamppost by the opposition winger because Eddie has no back three players on his bench.
Not forgetting the prop who came to the World Cup not fully fit who got done over in the final whilst a young hungry prop was sat watching.
All because ultimately it'll be about face fitting and "he is a well liked member of the squad" will continue to be one of Eddie's favourite comments.
:smt005 so many chips on your shoulder, it's comedy gold. Keep it up :smt023

mol2
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by mol2 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:53 am

Ayerza was a loss without a doubt and arguably during his career he was the best scrummaging loose head of his generation.

I think Genge is already a far better scrummager than he's given credit for. I would like to think Tigers will start destroying opposition scrums now they have the likes of Lavanini in the engine room. (I do think we now have the players in the pack to effectively support the front row which had been conspicuously absent for a few seasons with too many utility players in the second row)

We may have had the best scrum last season but the injuries to Genge and Bateman meant we could not rely on it as the points scoring weapon it once was.

BFG
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by BFG » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:13 am

Tiglon wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:43 am
BFG wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:37 am
Grimlish wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:50 pm
A shake up is afoot...

“I tell you what happens to teams – they evolve,” Jones said. “Some guys will lose desire, some guys will lose fitness, some guys will get injuries and there’ll be young guys come through. So this team is finished now. There will be a new team made. We’ll make a new team for the Six Nations and that new team for the Six Nations will be the basis of going to the next World Cup.“
And in four years time England will likely have an outside centre at full back grasping at thin air and a smirking skipper who misses important kicks with 12 on his back being made to look like a lamppost by the opposition winger because Eddie has no back three players on his bench.
Not forgetting the prop who came to the World Cup not fully fit who got done over in the final whilst a young hungry prop was sat watching.
All because ultimately it'll be about face fitting and "he is a well liked member of the squad" will continue to be one of Eddie's favourite comments.
:smt005 so many chips on your shoulder, it's comedy gold. Keep it up :smt023
I can live with chips and gold.
Cucumber sandwiches and silver for you! :smt023

Tiglon
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by Tiglon » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:09 pm

BFG wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:13 am
Tiglon wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:43 am
BFG wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:37 am

And in four years time England will likely have an outside centre at full back grasping at thin air and a smirking skipper who misses important kicks with 12 on his back being made to look like a lamppost by the opposition winger because Eddie has no back three players on his bench.
Not forgetting the prop who came to the World Cup not fully fit who got done over in the final whilst a young hungry prop was sat watching.
All because ultimately it'll be about face fitting and "he is a well liked member of the squad" will continue to be one of Eddie's favourite comments.
:smt005 so many chips on your shoulder, it's comedy gold. Keep it up :smt023
I can live with chips and gold.
Cucumber sandwiches and silver for you! :smt023
Are you ok?

BFG
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by BFG » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:18 am

Tiglon wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:14 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:44 am
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:52 am
Many pundits predicted before the World Cup it would be won by either South Africa or New Zealand. RFU’s target for Eddie was to get to the semi final. So even having lost the final England did better than expected so hats off to the squad.

England’s rugby team is on the rise. Many of those players will be around for the next tournament in France. Plus we have stacks of talent coming through from the U20s team. Many lessons to be learnt but no doubt the red rose will come back stronger.
England will always fall short, it's far too comfy in my opinion.
South Africa wanted it so much more.
For me hearing the South African skipper talk about his next meal being the priority as a youngster just highlighted the difference between the two sides.
I hardly think childhood poverty is a prerequisite for winning the World Cup...

And let's be honest, some of these stories are very much spun to sound a certain way. I once walked 7 miles to school, so you could truthfully write that I walked 7 miles to school when I was growing up, just as has been written about Mapimpi. Next meal being the priority as a youngster? Yep, same for me too, doesn't mean I was poor or experienced any hardship. Learn to take what you read in the media with a pinch of salt and a dash of common sense.

Let's not patronise the South African team with "they wanted it more", just give them the praise they deserve and admit they were better. They kicked better, they handled better and they made better decisions.

Final point: Lewis Moody went to prep school followed by Oakham School. Now have a think about whether there's a negative correlation between childhood privilege and commitment on the rugby pitch.
I think it's incredibly arrogant to claim that stories are spun.
I for one believe them and respect them, particularly hunger, it is a massive issue even in the UK today.
We can pick out individual cases such as Moody.
The South African World Cup winning team will also have players from well off backgrounds.
The point is about the teams core ethos, how deep it runs through the squad of how lucky they are to be where they are and respect for what they are representing.
South Africa seemed to respect it.
Not all England players seem to quite get it on the same level.
That extra few percent was missing in my opinion.
I found Itoje's comment that players were grieving after the final loss quite embarrassing.
I also found the England players refusing to wear their silver medals an embarrassment.
I think young Curry was one of the few who seemed to actually get it.
Most showed a lack of understanding and respect.

JP14
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by JP14 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:14 am

I too was disappointed that most England players didn’t accept their medals.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

DeadlyDunc
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by DeadlyDunc » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:00 am

Does anyone really care?

More faux pearl clutching about irrelevancies

Grumpy of Crumbie
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by Grumpy of Crumbie » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:13 am

My god this forum is depressing!

Of course it's disappointing that England came up short but they were beaten by a better team on the day. This came only a week after one of Englands best ever 80 minutes of rugby IMO.

To criticise and blame everyone and everything associated with England rugby is somewhat disingenuous not only to England Rugby but also the game in general.

You win some use lose some, and nobody is more disappointed than me that we lost last Saturday.

Anyone who has played any sort of team sport (or individual sport) will know that sometimes it just doesn't happen for reasons that may never be fully understood.
If you don't go in hard it's not a tackle it's an insult.

Scuttle
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by Scuttle » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:15 am

Grumpy of Crumbie wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:13 am
My god this forum is depressing!

Of course it's disappointing that England came up short but they were beaten by a better team on the day. This came only a week after one of Englands best ever 80 minutes of rugby IMO.

To criticise and blame everyone and everything associated with England rugby is somewhat disingenuous not only to England Rugby but also the game in general.

You win some use lose some, and nobody is more disappointed than me that we lost last Saturday.

Anyone who has played any sort of team sport (or individual sport) will know that sometimes it just doesn't happen for reasons that may never be fully understood.
A bit of ungrumpy common sense :smt038
As Good As It Gets

mol2
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by mol2 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:11 pm

Jones has now come out and said he should have started with Marler to deal with the SA scrum.
He has also said it wasn’t the game to start with Ford.

I would add that he should accept that starting with Lawes weakened the scrum.
Playing Daly at full back needs recognising too as something that weakened the side.

Would those changes have made a difference? We will never know.

JP14
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by JP14 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:18 pm

This is something quite different but if you're an Avengers fan (or if a close relative is) then you will enjoy this tribute to the England team.

https://youtu.be/Vs8jcHqmj_o
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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