The World Cup Final

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TomWeston
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by TomWeston » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:51 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:28 pm
...

Hats off to Erasmus for taking such a woeful South African team two years ago to World Cup Winners. The lesson here, as he said this week, is that when your team isn't doing very well go back to basics, play "boring" rugby, play percentages, kick intelligently and don't take too many risks - play rugby in the right parts of the field. That's the foundation that both Exeter and Saracens (and England 2003 for that matter) built their success on and we've seen it again today. I hope Tigers are paying attention...
England’s Saffaracens couldn’t beat the Saffas at the Saffas’ game.

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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by Tiglon » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:59 pm

TomWeston wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:51 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:28 pm
...

Hats off to Erasmus for taking such a woeful South African team two years ago to World Cup Winners. The lesson here, as he said this week, is that when your team isn't doing very well go back to basics, play "boring" rugby, play percentages, kick intelligently and don't take too many risks - play rugby in the right parts of the field. That's the foundation that both Exeter and Saracens (and England 2003 for that matter) built their success on and we've seen it again today. I hope Tigers are paying attention...
England’s Saffaracens couldn’t beat the Saffas at the Saffas’ game.
That's because England's Saffacens didn't play like Saffacens, they played like Tigers.

JP14
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by JP14 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:09 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:08 pm
RWC highlighted the need for big physical forwards even if the game is supposed to be changing to a more attacking mindset that was being predicted and still is being said to change with people praising Saints, Gloucester and Japan, but a good defence will trump a good attack.

Hopefully if Borthwick is coming he has learnt a thing of two from the SA game.
What I would give to sign Vermeulen even if he is 34 next season.
Vermeulen has already been abroad to France, does he really want to do that again? He seems content with the Bulls.
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by RagingBull » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:17 pm

JP14 wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:09 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:08 pm
RWC highlighted the need for big physical forwards even if the game is supposed to be changing to a more attacking mindset that was being predicted and still is being said to change with people praising Saints, Gloucester and Japan, but a good defence will trump a good attack.

Hopefully if Borthwick is coming he has learnt a thing of two from the SA game.
What I would give to sign Vermeulen even if he is 34 next season.
Vermeulen has already been abroad to France, does he really want to do that again? He seems content with the Bulls.
Who knows.
Might be a case of could the Bulls afford to keep a 34 year old star back rower more than anything.

Union run franchises tend to have to make that tough choice with the money being tighter.

See how his body holds up he will be targeting the lions tour, but things happen fast in 2 years and who knows how might be coming up in SA rugby.
Juarno Augustus with some injury luck could well oust him in 2 years from the international scene.

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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by BFG » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:20 pm

I think credit has to go to South Africa, they outfought England and made an England side that last week outfought New Zealand look very average.
I would've liked to have seen Genge.
Jones loyalty to all of the semi-final winners could've been a mistake.
England all over the place the last 20.
The front row was not prepared for what transpired in my opinion.
I thought that Underhill was a line threat and should've stayed on.
The team did a great job to make the final in my opinion.
Not sure the coaches did a great job.
The old breakdown and defensive pressure came back to haunt the basics again.

wellstiger
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by wellstiger » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:50 pm

Yep that loss was down to EJ and the team /tactics selection.
But as stated well done England for 2nd. :smt023

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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by Big Dai » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:00 pm

My view, for what it's worth, is that we (as in Eddie) didn't take into consideration the effort from last week. Kruis and Itoje should have stated in the second row, maybe Joe in the front row and maybe bulk up the back row with Lawes and Wilson. Meet bulk with bulk.

Maybe, just maybe the squad was a full back, a scrum half and a tight head short? Who knows?

In general I find it slightly ironic that the team I loved watching was Japan with the electric backs but the tournament was won via brutal forward power.
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Leicestertinytiger
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:15 pm

Big Dai wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:00 pm
My view, for what it's worth, is that we (as in Eddie) didn't take into consideration the effort from last week. Kruis and Itoje should have stated in the second row, maybe Joe in the front row and maybe bulk up the back row with Lawes and Wilson. Meet bulk with bulk.

Maybe, just maybe the squad was a full back, a scrum half and a tight head short? Who knows?

In general I find it slightly ironic that the team I loved watching was Japan with the electric backs but the tournament was won via brutal forward power.
Was thinking something similar, obviously given the wisdom of hindsight. Marler and Sinckler should have been starting props. Itoje and Kruis in the engine room with Lawes and Underhill on the flanks. With May not being fully fit, should have run out Cokanasiga who would have helped get over the gain line.

jgriffin
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by jgriffin » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:19 pm

Awful anticlimax. :smt011
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fleabane
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by fleabane » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:17 pm

A just result. Erasmus beat Jones.
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JP14
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by JP14 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:07 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:17 pm
JP14 wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:09 pm
RagingBull wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:08 pm
RWC highlighted the need for big physical forwards even if the game is supposed to be changing to a more attacking mindset that was being predicted and still is being said to change with people praising Saints, Gloucester and Japan, but a good defence will trump a good attack.

Hopefully if Borthwick is coming he has learnt a thing of two from the SA game.
What I would give to sign Vermeulen even if he is 34 next season.
Vermeulen has already been abroad to France, does he really want to do that again? He seems content with the Bulls.
Who knows.
Might be a case of could the Bulls afford to keep a 34 year old star back rower more than anything.

Union run franchises tend to have to make that tough choice with the money being tighter.

See how his body holds up he will be targeting the lions tour, but things happen fast in 2 years and who knows how might be coming up in SA rugby.
Juarno Augustus with some injury luck could well oust him in 2 years from the international scene.
I’m a big fan or Augustus and have said quite a few times Tigers should sign him.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

maroontrunks
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by maroontrunks » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:45 pm

Anyone else spot Ellis giving out tender hugs to the players after the loss?

mol2
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by mol2 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:13 pm

England picked a side and tactics to beat Australia and did the same against New Zealand.

Jones Lost the courage of his convictions and didn't make changes in players or personnel to reflect that South Africa were not going to be beaten in the same way.

New Zealand showed how to do that in the pool stages. Their scrum wasn't exposed because they didn't knock on with such regularity as England did.

Going for a mobile pack only works if you either don't concede scrums or the opponents can't scrum.
Jones got his starters and finishers the wrong way round in that game and the World Cup was gone.

Macko can't scrummage and England paid a heavy price. Compounded by starting with Lawes who doesn't have the scrummaging grunt in the engine room when it comes to that sort of game.
Shoehorning Daly into the full back slot was costly too.

longlivethecrumbie
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by longlivethecrumbie » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:24 am

Just noticed that Mike Ford appeared to be missing from the coaching box yesterday so I assume that he was in Japan(?)

Leicestertinytiger
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Re: The World Cup Final

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:52 am

Many pundits predicted before the World Cup it would be won by either South Africa or New Zealand. RFU’s target for Eddie was to get to the semi final. So even having lost the final England did better than expected so hats off to the squad.

England’s rugby team is on the rise. Many of those players will be around for the next tournament in France. Plus we have stacks of talent coming through from the U20s team. Many lessons to be learnt but no doubt the red rose will come back stronger.

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