LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

[Mark62]

You seem to enjoy a lot of figures in your posts, unfortunately rugby isn’t played on a spreed sheet, but by 30 big blokes on some green stuff, so there is a lot of human error.
As for a 20 year old being more susceptible to injury any sports scientist worth their salt will tell you the body is still developing at that age.
Your posts are interesting, but as the saying goes there are statistics and there are damned lies.
Personally I would rather believe what I have seen with my own eyes following the game for 45 plus years

You and I both know that the game has changed beyond recognition in 45 years.

A sports scientist will also tell you that numbers mean something.

If you're going to ignore facts because you dont like them, I might as well be debating the existence of god with a Christian.

It has changed in every way possible, which is my point, it can’t all be put down to figures, which some seem to over utilise imo.
Anyway I’m a dyslexic agnostic, I don’t believe in Dog

[RagingBull]

Whilst number of scrums have gone down I've not seen anything to indicate that it is far less brutal than it was back in 03 for a prop.
You would have to factor in the body fat % of props then and now, and also the overall work rate that is now expected amongst the props.

I always thought a props lifespan was longer back in the day compared to now on the whole.


(also for Heyes debate surely prem figures would be better than the RWC figures).

[BFG]

Whilst number of scrums have gone down I've not seen anything to indicate that it is far less brutal than it was back in 03 for a prop.
You would have to factor in the body fat % of props then and now, and also the overall work rate that is now expected amongst the props.

I always thought a props lifespan was longer back in the day compared to now on the whole.


(also for Heyes debate surely prem figures would be better than the RWC figures).

On the young prop debate I think it's easier to bring a loose head through earlier than a tight head in general but I do recall Ralph Adams-Hale getting caught out playing at loose head for Sarries recently as the opposition kept pushing as the scrum was going down and Ralph tried to stay up to compete in his honesty and got a nasty ankle injury, inexperience.
You have to be very careful that these young lads aren't exposed to idiotic opposition.

[RagingBull]

Whilst number of scrums have gone down I've not seen anything to indicate that it is far less brutal than it was back in 03 for a prop.
You would have to factor in the body fat % of props then and now, and also the overall work rate that is now expected amongst the props.

I always thought a props lifespan was longer back in the day compared to now on the whole.


(also for Heyes debate surely prem figures would be better than the RWC figures).

On the young prop debate I think it's easier to bring a loose head through earlier than a tight head in general but I do recall Ralph Adams-Hale getting caught out playing at loose head for Sarries recently as the opposition kept pushing as the scrum was going down and Ralph tried to stay up to compete in his honesty and got a nasty ankle injury, inexperience.
You have to be very careful that these young lads aren't exposed to idiotic opposition.

I would agree with you on that point TBH.

[strawclearer]

BBC Leicester Sport:

Could Tigers sign any Saracens players? Murphy says it's unlikely: "I'd imagine the players they release may be out of our price range. We don't have a huge amount of space in our salary cap. The squad that we have is getting better on a weekly basis. That's where we need to be."

[Jimmy Skitz]

BBC Leicester Sport:

Could Tigers sign any Saracens players? Murphy says it's unlikely: "I'd imagine the players they release may be out of our price range. We don't have a huge amount of space in our salary cap. The squad that we have is getting better on a weekly basis. That's where we need to be."

I would imagine they are getting bought out of their contracts otherwise the Union would do their collective nuts, so these players might be willing to accept less money as it would be a bonus on top of what they receive from Sarries

[RagingBull]

Depends on the player and the contract.
Mid season ones will most likely get a buy out, but out of the rumoured mid season leavers who would we really go all out for, unless injury cover?
End of season may be different, for example I would imagine the Japanese club Kruis is rumoured to be looking to sign for will be matching or paying kruis more and instead of a buy out it would be more mutual.

[Cagey Tiger]

BBC Leicester Sport:

Could Tigers sign any Saracens players? Murphy says it's unlikely: "I'd imagine the players they release may be out of our price range. We don't have a huge amount of space in our salary cap. The squad that we have is getting better on a weekly basis. That's where we need to be."

I would imagine they are getting bought out of their contracts otherwise the Union would do their collective nuts, so these players might be willing to accept less money as it would be a bonus on top of what they receive from Sarries

I would imagine getting bought out of their contracts would count towards the salary cap, but I'm not going poring over the regs to find out (too complicated, sorry).

[Jimmy Skitz]

BBC Leicester Sport:

Could Tigers sign any Saracens players? Murphy says it's unlikely: "I'd imagine the players they release may be out of our price range. We don't have a huge amount of space in our salary cap. The squad that we have is getting better on a weekly basis. That's where we need to be."

I would imagine they are getting bought out of their contracts otherwise the Union would do their collective nuts, so these players might be willing to accept less money as it would be a bonus on top of what they receive from Sarries

I would imagine getting bought out of their contracts would count towards the salary cap, but I'm not going poring over the regs to find out (too complicated, sorry).

the only way to effectively sack them and not pay off their deals would be for gross misconduct, or Sarries will have many law suits coming up for wrongful dismissal

[Tiglon]

I would imagine they are getting bought out of their contracts otherwise the Union would do their collective nuts, so these players might be willing to accept less money as it would be a bonus on top of what they receive from Sarries

I would imagine getting bought out of their contracts would count towards the salary cap, but I'm not going poring over the regs to find out (too complicated, sorry).

the only way to effectively sack them and not pay off their deals would be for gross misconduct, or Sarries will have many law suits coming up for wrongful dismissal

If they need to get rid of people they can invite them to without prejudice meetings where they can negotiate off the record. They can basically say "we want you to leave, what do we need to offer to get you to agree?" Normally involves compensation, but maybe they can still make a saving overall that way. Players could be told they can leave as soon as they find a new club, which might avoid the need for compensation. They have plenty of players who would not struggle to find an offer elsewhere.

There's also redundancy, but I'm not sure if that would work, unless they are going to reduce the size of their squad for the foreseeable.

[RagingBull]

So new rumours in Rugby Paper
Winger top of the list, mainly one Ben Lam (Doesn't sound like it's dependant on May going either)
Spencer linked to Worcester
Mike Ford wants us to try to sign Tom Ellis from Bath.

[ABClub]

Lam would be an excellent signing. He's a lightning quick finisher but also more powerful than our other wingers. Plus he should be available all season.

In terms of wingers, Lewington was excellent for Sarries against Ospreys. He's apparently being released by Sarries to get under the cap for next season. If Thompstone were moving on at the end of his contract then Lewington would fit his place in the squad well whilst being a few years younger and quicker.

As for Ellis I'd rather we promoted back rowers from within to fill squad places. Aren't Thom Smith, Henri Lavin and Taylor Gough all in their final year in the development squad? Eveleigh, Illione, Kit Smith and Muncaster are excellent prospects coming up after those three.

I hope Cam Jordan gets promoted to the senior squad for next year as well. Using the academy talent (U18s are 17 games unbeaten now) to fill out the squad is an important way of saving cap on squad players. Something we've been poor at for years now.

[trendylfj]

From Mailonline

Nadolo on the fringes
A host of Premiership clubs have been sounded out about the possibility of signing giant 21st winger Nemani Nadolo.

Despite being a club legend, the Fijian could find himself on the fringes at Montpellier next season because of increasing pressure to field French players under the country’s new quota system.

Montpellier are stocked with young French wingers so the option of an early release from Nadolo’s contract is being explored. Leicester are among the potential suitors.

[sam16111986]

So new rumours in Rugby Paper
Winger top of the list, mainly one Ben Lam (Doesn't sound like it's dependant on May going either)
Spencer linked to Worcester
Mike Ford wants us to try to sign Tom Ellis from Bath.

Ben Lam is quality, big and quick. Scores a lot of tries. Unlucky not to get AB recognition. At 28 he's in his prime and he'll be wanting prime wages.

Spencer is a good player but seems to pick up a lot of injuries. I'd like to keep him but probably not on the cash we're paying him currently.

Tom Ellis is a good grafter, pretty big and mobile. Not sure he'd be a better bet than progressing some of our younger players alongside Kalamafoni, Liebenburg and Taufua. We've seen Lewis come in at 6 and show up well. Reffell and Thompson are good options at 7. Smith, Lavin and Gough have all been playing Championship rugby this season. They should be progressing towards cup games and bench cover next season and then into the first team squad more regularly the season after (succession planning for Kalamafoni and Thompson who are both into their 30s). Ilione looks like he'll be a monster of a blindside when he finishes filling out. Not sure we need Ellis.

[JP14]

Lam or Nadalo, that would be great. In my view probably Lam as he is younger and fresher, Ellis a good player as he is I’m not sure he would be worth the expenditure in our backrow which I believe is more or less sorted now.