LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Locked
kornboy130
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4686
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:48 pm
Location: Behind You

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by kornboy130 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:12 pm

MikeR wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:43 am
I would have thought its being hurting us for many Seasons.
I'm still astounded people can hold this view. Look at our most successful periods - the team was absolutely stacked full of internationals. Looking at the dominant side in English and European rugby - they're stacked with internationals. Winners of the top 14 Toulouse? stacked with internationals. Perhaps we look at the Pro 14 winners - Leinster? We begin to see a theme.

You don't win the league or Europe by sneaking a win or two against the stronger sides during the 6 nations/AIs - you win them by winning the big games at the end of the season whether it be play offs or European cup finals. For this you need to be a club that has the best players.

Delving even deeper than this all of those teams above have a rich history of home producing international quality talent - it seems the active move away from this and in to the realms of always-available-but-not-quite-top level talent that has put us in the position of rebuilding as we are now. You can even observe this by looking at the ascent of clubs like Exeter - home grown talent, long term retention, international quality players.

Why would we want to offload the current internationals we have in favour of players of lesser quality?

RagingBull
Super User
Super User
Posts: 8485
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:54 pm

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by RagingBull » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:20 pm

You can believe whatever you want BFG.
I don’t mind.

It is it really that unbelievable?
Ben Youngs would’ve been in the top 3 earners at the time of signing pretty much.
Toomua, Manu, Cole, May all in that bracket at the time.
Couldn’t move away from England at time as would lose England spot.
Only real club that was after him was Bath.
Also had family stuff going on at time so unlikely to play hard ball with us too much.

Compared to FH
Signed on a massive original contract with Worcester who had to overpay since French clubs, Us and Exeter were after him.
Pretty much gave up international rugby on the whole for the contract.

Also when you factor in Youngs England payments he would’ve been nearly £500000 since signing for us with sponsor deals on top of that. He is most likely earning slightly more than FH anyway.

BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3065
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by BFG » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:35 pm

ABClub wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:48 am
BFG wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:26 am
RagingBull wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:01 am


From what I gather about he's on about half as much as FH.

But Youngs also get's England money on top of it.
Like a morning after a strong curry and a few too many beers you seem to pass on a lot that is lacking in any substance.
Proof!
Do you have any?
The majority of what we all post here is speculation and word of mouth. If YBY had posted a picture of his contract, wage included then it wouldn't be a discussion would it.

Unless anyone one here is Youngs agent or a Tigers employee directly involved in contract negotiations planning on losing their job by offering public proof of Ben's income then these discussion will continue to be speculation.
Thought as much!

Cagey Tiger
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1895
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: South Lincolnshire

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by Cagey Tiger » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:32 am

BFG wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:35 pm
ABClub wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:48 am
BFG wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:26 am


Like a morning after a strong curry and a few too many beers you seem to pass on a lot that is lacking in any substance.
Proof!
Do you have any?
The majority of what we all post here is speculation and word of mouth. If YBY had posted a picture of his contract, wage included then it wouldn't be a discussion would it.

Unless anyone one here is Youngs agent or a Tigers employee directly involved in contract negotiations planning on losing their job by offering public proof of Ben's income then these discussion will continue to be speculation.
Thought as much!
Only just realised? :smt002

sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4082
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by sam16111986 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:07 pm

Hot_Charlie wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:09 am
Scuttle wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:53 pm
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:33 pm
Max Malins is out of contract end of season. Think he would make a great 15 who can cover 10. Would also be an upgrade over Worth and let Hardwick concentrate on playing 12.
I agree albeit I would put money on Sarries being as keen to keep him as we are George Ford
Not sure if Sarries will be able to afford to keep everyone.
I doubt they are that desperate. If we lose Fordy we are in huge trouble. He's a leader and kept us up last season. Sarries have the very talented young 15 Gallagher plus three other international options at 15. Farrell, Lozowski, Goode, Whitely and Vunipola as options at 10 the last two being talented youngsters. I imagine Mallins may well opt to move in order to get more game time.
kornboy130 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:12 pm
MikeR wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:43 am
I would have thought its being hurting us for many Seasons.
I'm still astounded people can hold this view. Look at our most successful periods - the team was absolutely stacked full of internationals. Looking at the dominant side in English and European rugby - they're stacked with internationals. Winners of the top 14 Toulouse? stacked with internationals. Perhaps we look at the Pro 14 winners - Leinster? We begin to see a theme.

You don't win the league or Europe by sneaking a win or two against the stronger sides during the 6 nations/AIs - you win them by winning the big games at the end of the season whether it be play offs or European cup finals. For this you need to be a club that has the best players.

Delving even deeper than this all of those teams above have a rich history of home producing international quality talent - it seems the active move away from this and in to the realms of always-available-but-not-quite-top level talent that has put us in the position of rebuilding as we are now. You can even observe this by looking at the ascent of clubs like Exeter - home grown talent, long term retention, international quality players.

Why would we want to offload the current internationals we have in favour of players of lesser quality?
👏 Well said. Good solid player who aren't a threat to international call up. Basically that's Worcester level. We want to be aiming higher, might take some time to get back to where we were but we've got to aim high and retaining our top players is part of that.

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 5982
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Neverland

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by JP14 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:03 pm

Harrisons departure at Christmas has just been confirmed...
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

mol2
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3467
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: Cosby

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by mol2 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:16 pm

International players don't come cheap and any side with ambition needs players of that standard in the key positions.

(Front row, 8, Fly half and scrum half) plus one or two elsewhere. Getting rid of one will just require filling with another of similar cost. There won't be too many of that standard who won't be playing internationally and I doubt we have the money to pay them enough to quit international play. You may get the odd exception who has concluded the international coach doesn't like him and effectively quits international rugby by moving to England.

Just how many international scrum halves are better and cheaper than Ben Youngs? Not many.
He can be frustrating but that really reflects the clueless, undynamic players surrounding him at Tigers over the past few years.
If there are no runners and no dummy runners how can he fizz a quick ball that opens the defence? Passing to our lock cum back rows over past couples of seasons was almost futile. Standing start, fall over without crossing the gain line.... When Manu wasn't playing there were no line breakers bar the odd bit of magic from George Ford. May could have gone for pint for all the times we gave him the ball in space because our once dominant back row forwards had the menace of a kitten rather than a Tiger.

jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7191
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by jgriffin » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:30 pm

JP14 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:03 pm
Harrisons departure at Christmas has just been confirmed...
Sinking feeling...………..the ravens are leaving the Tower :smt010 :smt010
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

voice of the crumbie
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1790
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:25 pm
Location: coalville

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by voice of the crumbie » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:51 pm

mol2 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:16 pm

Just how many international scrum halves are better and cheaper than Ben Youngs? Not many.
He can be frustrating but that really reflects the clueless, undynamic players surrounding him at Tigers over the past few years.
If there are no runners and no dummy runners how can he fizz a quick ball that opens the defence? Passing to our lock cum back rows over past couples of seasons was almost futile. Standing start, fall over without crossing the gain line.... When Manu wasn't playing there were no line breakers bar the odd bit of magic from George Ford. May could have gone for pint for all the times we gave him the ball in space because our once dominant back row forwards had the menace of a kitten rather than a Tiger.
Great observation mol2. You have expressed what I was thinking only the other day but didn't have time to post.
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2822
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by Hot_Charlie » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:52 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:30 pm
JP14 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:03 pm
Harrisons departure at Christmas has just been confirmed...
Sinking feeling...………..the ravens are leaving the Tower :smt010 :smt010
No. Seeing as he’s emigrating for a career change it’s probably no surprise the timing coincides with the start of the Australian school year though, seeing as he’s a fella with young kids. He will have covered YBY through the RWC and post-tournament “stand-down”, and his work here will be done.

voice of the crumbie
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1790
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:25 pm
Location: coalville

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by voice of the crumbie » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:04 pm

Hot_Charlie wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:52 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:30 pm
JP14 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:03 pm
Harrisons departure at Christmas has just been confirmed...
Sinking feeling...………..the ravens are leaving the Tower :smt010 :smt010
No. Seeing as he’s emigrating for a career change it’s probably no surprise the timing coincides with the start of the Australian school year though, seeing as he’s a fella with young kids. He will have covered YBY through the RWC and post-tournament “stand-down”, and his work here will be done.
The interesting question for me is are we going to be bringing in someone to replace him or are we going to try and rely on White and Simmons plus academy cover to fill the gap?

Whatever happens it's important to record that we are losing a great club servant and another link with the "Leicester Way". Hence jg's Tower of London analogy.
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2822
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by Hot_Charlie » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:24 pm

voice of the crumbie wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:04 pm
Hot_Charlie wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:52 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:30 pm

Sinking feeling...………..the ravens are leaving the Tower :smt010 :smt010
No. Seeing as he’s emigrating for a career change it’s probably no surprise the timing coincides with the start of the Australian school year though, seeing as he’s a fella with young kids. He will have covered YBY through the RWC and post-tournament “stand-down”, and his work here will be done.
The interesting question for me is are we going to be bringing in someone to replace him or are we going to try and rely on White and Simmons plus academy cover to fill the gap?

Whatever happens it's important to record that we are losing a great club servant and another link with the "Leicester Way". Hence jg's Tower of London analogy.
I think we’ll be trusting White and Simmons; they are the age to step up. Hence their promotions out of the Dev Squad to be replaced by JVP and Jonny Law.

drc_007
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3249
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:28 am

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by drc_007 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:33 pm

mol2 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:16 pm

Just how many international scrum halves are better and cheaper than Ben Youngs? Not many.
He can be frustrating but that really reflects the clueless, undynamic players surrounding him at Tigers over the past few years.
If there are no runners and no dummy runners how can he fizz a quick ball that opens the defence? Passing to our lock cum back rows over past couples of seasons was almost futile. Standing start, fall over without crossing the gain line.... When Manu wasn't playing there were no line breakers bar the odd bit of magic from George Ford. May could have gone for pint for all the times we gave him the ball in space because our once dominant back row forwards had the menace of a kitten rather than a Tiger.
This is a great encapsulation of Tigers current woes. Send it to the coaches.

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 5982
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Neverland

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by JP14 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:35 pm

I was impressed by Jonny Law at the 7s.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

LE18
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2802
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:13 am
Location: Great Glen

Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2019/20 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 2

Post by LE18 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:35 pm

JP14 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:35 pm
I was impressed by Jonny Law at the 7s.
There's a massive difference between 7s and 15s, miles more space in which to operate, without 6,7,8s bombing you.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: peteD, TigerFeetSteve and 2 guests