Leicester vs Saracens

[longlivethecrumbie]

Like many on here I wanted Geordan to do well and also felt a full pre-season would help as well as clearing out some dead wood and doing some of his own recruitment too would make a difference. I'm now very much of a view that time is up.

Ben White's delivery is so laboured and slow that even our defensive line from last season could have coped with the slow ball. We had much better tempo when Sam Harrison came on.

The difficulty then with such slow ball is that the next phase runners almost always are static as they don't know when the delivery is coming and then it fails to put any stress on a well drilled Saracens defence.

Our scrum seemed dominant in the second half - especially when the replacements came on.

I don't see any of the age group games but I'd hazard a guess that Saracens sides play the same way from academy to first 15 - that's their identity and the way they play. I'd go out on a limb and say that we don't have an identity and that the academy sides play a completely different way to the first 15 (they win, for a start....)

Let us hope that this Borthwick speculation is not that and that change is coming after next Sunday when Borthwick's hangover clears!

[wellstiger]

Borthwick - Stanco - Ford. After that we are top heavy with underperformers. Good intentions do not get the job done.

If I promised and could not deliver in the time these have had, I'd be out on me ear.
Good players do not become bad overnight- something is creating this underperformance.

[Leicestertinytiger]

If we do bring in Borthwick, make him DOR and cut out the deadwood. I would never say this lightly and don’t want to see people lose their jobs but we don’t want Murphy, Deacon, Bakewell or Blake. Keep Stanko, move Ford to defence coach and look to bring in an established attack coach. Then we will start seeing improvements no doubt.

Also fed up of the PR spin of we go again next week. Nothing will change week on week without significant changes.

We need some positivity in the team and the way we play, especially at home. Why weren’t we playing Olowofela and SAR on the wings with Holmes at fullback and looking to attack the game. Losing isn’t the end of the world if the performance needs to be much better.

[JP14]

If you listen to Mark McCalls, Rob Baxter’s, Dai Young’s and quite a lot of the other head coaches comments during a game you hear concise, intelligent and informative information about what’s happening in the match, listen to Murphy and all you her is recycled coach quotes not at all related with what is happening throughout the match.
He is just not up to the job, he lacks the talent or intelligence to be a head coach.
It won’t be long before Mike Ford is head coach.

I wouldn’t put Young on that list, Wasps are really poor at the moment too.

[wellstiger]

On BT Sport today, the camera panned in at half time to the 2 dressing rooms
Sarries were all ears to their Coach. they looked enthused...
Panning to the home dressing room, it showed players sitting isolated, and then a very telling shot of Murphy flitting across, with not a word said.
Am sorry, he was a great player, but our coaching and skills have totally disintegrated since he has been involved

Better get used to it at the last supporters forum Mr Cohen basically said despite what happens this season Murphy is here to stay.

Well if this continues by the end of the season the only people watching will be those on the team benches and a few ground staff.

Last person out - Please switch the lights off

[wellstiger]

Cohen has nailed his colours to the post. Shi(p) or bust time. Scoured the world last time.
The board may be doing O.K off pitch but they are really dire for staffing and retention.
Hope the club is sold with a majority holdings outside the present structure.
Then we may see some persons who may have the backbone to make the hard yards.

Really if this 6-7 seasons of utter decline continues I see two more hotels built on the hallowed turf and Tigers resigned to the history books.
And I am Tigers to the core. Shame for letting this happen

[kk20gb30]

Really think we (some) need to recognize that Geordan's coaching position is down to who he is and not his coaching ability- the one thing he has been granted is time to mature behind the scenes ; cant really say this has happened.Talking is all well and good but.......
Without doubt players are not helping either - missing touch with dead ball time is criminal.The first half yesterday was nothing more than suicide screened live on TV.
Harrison gave us impetus , yet start him and it seems the reverse is so (and Simmons gains more favour by not playing) ; believe Reid is not a fly - half and Viljoen needs to look at tackle technique (arms) and curb the ambition ball in hand.

It is not all negative (despite how I sound) , change your players and it takes time to gel.Equally a change a personnel needs an accompanying change of attitude , and here I'm not convinced this is so.However to change your playing staff and still see the same game-plan and basic errors says (to me) an awful lot about the/our coaching.
My main problem is that I'm old to remember when we were good , but winning is not a right (unless you can afford it like Sarries) and right now I'd settle for competitive and/or half decent .

[RichieB]

How prophetic was it to announce the (excellent) musical accompaniment at half-time. Rock Bottom - an entirely appropriate name based on our current league position. I know it is only 2 league games in, but as has been highlighted our international players may not bring the salvation we seek over the long term.

[Tiglon]

To be honest, I'm not sure how that result can be a surprise to anyone. Saracens line up looked much stronger, especially when you consider not only the individual quality of the players but also how settled they are as a team. Those guys all know each other and know how they're going to play.

Tigers though looked pretty awful as a backline, despite some nice moments from Holmes. Forwards looked better than last season but still not exactly brilliant overall.

Will the internationals make the difference? Probably not given they can only play a third of the season. Hopefully enough to avoid bottom place.

The problem is, as mentioned before, the biggest difference between tigers and saracens is how settled and consistent they are. Saracens gradually evolve their squad each season whereas tigers rip it up and start again once a year.

The wasps model of bringing in new superstars every year clearly hasn't worked, so that isn't the way to go. The only way I can see out of this mess is for tigers to build some consistency in playing staff and go back to basics with gameplan, then try to evolve slowly. If that means being around the foot of the table for a few more years then maybe that's what we need to accept. Perhaps our biggest problem is that we aim too high too quickly. So what if tigers used to be the best? That's entirely irrelevant now and if we finish 10th this season it is progress, whether we like it or not.

[fleabane]

When you consider how long the coaching team has had to develop a team, what we can all see on the pitch is even more disappointing, listless and incoherent.

I really enjoyed my years on the terrace, and then sitting in the Crumbie (as âge and infirmity gained ground), but I must admit that being unable to visit WR all the time now is something of a relief. The joy of attending WR is in the past, and started to decline before my move abroad.

Hearing The Black Eyed Peas always reminds me of the good old days - a win, followed by a curry, then home. What is played at the end of a match now? The Funeral March would sadly seem appropriate.

[TigerBoy1880]

Saracens were absolutely there for the taking yesterday. Yes, they had some good players in their team with current and former internationals but they weren’t that good. They just did the basics right.

A few things that frustrated me were:
Kicking to touch from penalties- the ball has to go off the pitch every time for me. If you don’t find touch, you’ve wasted the penalty. I’d prefer to see it go 20m than 50m if it means the ball is off the pitch.

First man hit up- we too often passed the ball from the ruck or maul and ran it straight into their defence. This need to be mixed up more. Saracens could easily read what we were doing and were able to defend it easily.

Not putting into action what you said during the week- In the build up, Green said we need to be more physical. Well, we weren’t physical enough. Again.

[JP14]

Does this international rule apply to Lavanini, Kalamafoni or Veainu or is it just England players?

[JP14]

Towards the end there were glimpses, Worth was unlucky as Maitland flat out kneed him before he could even touch the ball and Gigena made a half-break, a bit poor from Liebenberg in his finish, the scrum half didn't even put too much pressure on the ball.

[Leicestertinytiger]

Towards the end there were glimpses, Worth was unlucky as Maitland flat out kneed him before he could even touch the ball and Gigena made a half-break, a bit poor from Liebenberg in his finish, the scrum half didn't even put too much pressure on the ball.

Tigers tinted glasses there, Maitland and Worth both competed for the ball in the air. Worth has been poor both games this season. Why we haven’t been playing Holmes at fullback with more attacking wingers I don’t know. Just smacks of a negative gameplan from the get go, especially at home just isn’t good enough.

[RagingBull]

Viljoen was doing most of the kicking from hands for pens right?

Maybe he hasn't fully adjusted to the lower sea level compared to compared to Bloemfontein which is where I believe he did most of his in game kicking at till he was signed by Western Province?