England in the 6N

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mol2
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England in the 6N

Post by mol2 »

Come the end of England’s involvement in the World Cup, assuming Eddie Jones stays in post, I was wondering home many changes will be made come the 6N.

A lot of the players are young but some like Cole, Young’s, Marler and Lawes are probably at the end of their international careers.
Robespierre
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by Robespierre »

Lawes must surely have a few more years in him yet.
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JP14
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by JP14 »

Lawes has got some way to go still internationally.
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JP14
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by JP14 »

Depends if anyone retires after the World Cup, I can see Cole retiring, perhaps Marler, maybe Youngs?
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CitizenSmiff
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by CitizenSmiff »

Youngs and Lawes are only 30, hardly pensioners! Though if we win the world cup I imagine a fair few might give it some thought.
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by Leicestertinytiger »

To be fair not many of the squad will be retiring. Marler, Cole, Lawes, Wilson and Youngs could all still make the next World Cup with some management.

However, lots of talent in the forwards and scrum half so not the end of the world if they hang up their boots. Ewels, Ribbans, Hill, Willis, Spencer and Robson could all come in and mix things up. Hill was immense against us for Worcester and could easily overtake Wilson.
Scott1
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by Scott1 »

Cole and Youngs won't retire,they are gonna get 100 caps
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by sam16111986 »

Scott1 wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:29 pm Cole and Youngs won't retire,they are gonna get 100 caps
☝️ Was thinking the same thing, they'll both want to be centurions. Having someone as dependable as Cole around is always helpful for an international coach, you know he'll be solid and do a job. At 32 he could do a year or two more at international level but you'd expect for the likes of Williams or Hill to overtake him. As in the 6N this season you'd expect him to still be there as even if he doesn't play having a 90 odd cap there to pass on his knowledge to the younger players is good.

Youngs could make the next RWC and will want to have another crack at the Lions in a couple of years time as well. As with Cole, no international coach will want to lose that level of experience as they look to transition the squad onto the next RWC cycle. It's already quite a young squad.
mol2
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by mol2 »

Perhaps, but 4 years is a long time for a youngster to gain experience. The younger players in the squad will have had this World Cup and another 4 years of international and club play.

2015 was an example of selecting experience over ability (amongst many other failings). As for a player's wish to obtain 100 caps or any other milestone, I don't believe there should be room for sentimentality at international level to allow a stalwart to play on when the team would be better served by playing a younger player to gain experience so they are ready for the big games come the next world cup.

This is a youthful England side so the coaches can probably afford to let some older players go yet maintain continuity.
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by JP14 »

After Sinckler and Williams, the level of tighthead is concerning, Hill has been capped by Jones but has been out of the frame for a long time and has injury issues, Painter isn’t mobile enough, Stuart potentially not sure of his scrummaging ability, will Heyes make the grade internationally?
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Leicestertinytiger
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by Leicestertinytiger »

JP14 wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:06 pm After Sinckler and Williams, the level of tighthead is concerning, Hill has been capped by Jones but has been out of the frame for a long time and has injury issues, Painter isn’t mobile enough, Stuart potentially not sure of his scrummaging ability, will Heyes make the grade internationally?
Bit harsh on some players there. Hill is a very good all round prop, only 24 so still has growth in him. Improved two fold at the set piece and could still make the grade.

Painter and Heyes are very different types of props but both have massive potential. Wouldn’t be surprised if either get capped by England. Stuart I don’t rate really.
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by wellstiger »

A mix of experience and Youth - yes .
However we do need to develop a new players into the red rose. 4 years in rugby is not long.
Can see youngs sticking around - may be pushed by a fit D.Care. Cole maybe not Marler had already retired and was fished in.
Lawes is getting passed his best although this season has looked better.

The way the pace of the game is going legs are needed. Did Australia suffer for a senior squad?

Will E.J stick around after this 6N or is Australia calling?
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by biffer »

Much to my chagrin, I think England may be in for a period of dominance in the 6Ns. The squad is still relatively young, especially compared to the Welsh and Irish.

Ireland will be losing Best, Cronin, Healy, Ryan, O'Mahony, Murray, Sexton, Earls, Kearney in the near future, and although they have a lot of good players coming through, I'm not sure they can replace that lot. Then chuck in Farrell's coaching and, well.

Wales similarly will be losing Ken Owens, Alun Wyn Jones, Bradely Davies, Justin Tipuric, Jonathon Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, Dan Biggar in the next few years and the drop off in quality behind their first 23 was evident in their last pool game. Then add in the departure of Gatland and Shaun Edwards and I can see them entering the doldrums as well.

Scotland has talent coming but until a harder edge is introduced to our rugby (which was in evidence under Cotter but has disappeared under Townsend) it'll be a case of a hard trip to Murrayfield for the opposition but Scotland won't be consistently winning.

France, basically are France, it depends who turns up and how much they're fighting amongst themselves.
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by Leicestertinytiger »

You look at the World Cup squad, most players will probably be around for the next tournament. Add in the forwards coming up like Ted Hill, Jack Willis, Dombrandt, dare I say Heyes, you would be mad not to stay on.
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Re: England in the 6N

Post by JP14 »

Back row is going to be a dogfight over the next few years, with Underhill’s injury record i can see him over time being ousted in favour of Willis, Hill or perhaps even a certain Will Evans (who has trained under EJ).
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